Technical Oh not again. Cutting out over bumps

[Goudrons]

https://www.fiatforum.com/panda/324249-cutting-out-problem-any-cure.html

The Mrs's has just told me it's at it again!
Over speed bumps it's cutting out, and there are feckin' millions of them near me.

Just my luck, I'm off to Belgium Thursday and as my Jag broke down there last time, I booked the crossing under the Pandas' reg.

I guess I'm going to threaten it with the hammer again!

 

[portland_bill]

It has got to be a loose connection.
Check main live feeds and earth from battery to gearbox to engine. Check and clean the ECU connections.

Do you have lots of keys and stuff dangling from your keyring? These can often strain the ignition switch and break connections. When it cuts out, jiggle the key gently to see if the ign switch may be dicky.

 

[Connor9517]

As above it sounds like the earth on the ecu just make a cable with 2 ring terminals and take it direct to battery it's what I had to do with my mams car

 

[Goudrons]

take it direct to battery it's what I had to do with my mams car

Take it direct to the battery from where?
From the ECU body?

 

[Connor9517]

Yeah there should be a 10mm bolt on the side I think then wire that straight to the battery for a good earth connection

 

[Goudrons]

Hmm, just had a quick look and it coughed into life for a second or two then died completely.

I think the fix may be a bit more simple this time, like putting some petrol in it!

The Mrs's has ran it bone dry again!
I reckon it's been hiccuping over the bumps as it's empty.

No wonder she was keen to leave it with me and take my car.

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

Hmm, just had a quick look and it coughed into life for a second or two then died completely.

I think the fix may be a bit more simple this time, like putting some petrol in it!

The Mrs's has ran it bone dry again!
I reckon it's been hiccuping over the bumps as it's empty.

No wonder she was keen to leave it with me and take my car.

Sorry but

 

[Goudrons]

After a couple of visits to one of those brightly coloured "petrol shops", it seems fine again.
No cutting out over bumps and I've wiggle the keys in the ignition when driving, nothing.

Why can't these petrol stations encourage my Mrs to visit them?
Perhaps they could sell shoes, scented wood shavings and flowery tea towels, but only after petrol is purchased!

 

[Wee Smurf]

This definitely made me laugh! Perhaps it's a good thing that I hate buying shoes then, as I've never managed to run out of go-go juice, lol.

 

[jon1612]

Hmm, just had a quick look and it coughed into life for a second or two then died completely.

I think the fix may be a bit more simple this time, like putting some petrol in it!

The Mrs's has ran it bone dry again!
I reckon it's been hiccuping over the bumps as it's empty.

No wonder she was keen to leave it with me and take my car.

:bang::bang::bang::bang:

well we all try to help with every possible idea we can think of
BUT we are not MRS Proof........

 

[Jerseywurzel]

I am so sorry, but this thread made me spill my wine with laughter:woot:Ahhhh

I just told my mrs, who only passed her test a month ago, that if she did that then I would advertise the fact here too :devil:

You gorra laugh mate :slayer:

 

[Goudrons]

It's my own fault.
We've ran three cars all summer, so she's had her pick (of whatever had fuel in at the time).
She can't remember the last time she put fuel in any, and the bank statements pretty much prove she hasn't had too since July.

I've just stuck the MX5 away for the winter and it's caught her out, stuck with one car that doesn't magically refill it's self.

 

[Goudrons]

Right, I think I've got a related problem to this conking out, (though it hasn't done it for a while)

The Panda has started to race a little on idle.

There's no tacho on our pauper spec Active, but it's obvious it's hanging on to it's high idle after it's warmed up. (yes the temp gauge works as normal)
The rpm are close/the same as when it's on it's warm up.

Switching off a few seconds and restarting seems to return it to normal, warm idle.

I've checked the TB and it looks clean, cable is free and returns the butterfly closed with a snap.

I'm starting to think there's a Idle Air Bypass valve problem (or whatever they are known as this week).
That it's opening when cold and bypassing the main TB to increase the idle, but it's not returning when warm, hence the continued high idle.
Then when the ignition is turned off, the power/signal is cut from the valve and it's disabled until the ignition is switched on again and the ECU detects a warm engine and sets the valve accordingly (normal, warm idle)

Does this sound possible?
I'm a thinking this valve is part of the friggin' TB and isn't replaceable on it's own?
If it can't control the idle properly, it could account for the stalling?

 

[A3jeroen]

If your TB is electronically controlled (which I don't know for sure) there is no extra air bypass, but the valve is slightly opened by the ECU. If that's the case, cleaning the connectors, including those to the ECU, might do the trick.

gr J

 

[Goudrons]

There's a cut out on the mouth of the TB with some sort of actuator/plug on the side.
I presume this is the Idle Air Bypass Valve. (Front left corner)
http://www.shop4parts.co.uk/?name=store&op=Details&ProdID=3537&sku=48237

The one behind it (rear left) must be the TPS, and the right is cable/butterfly actuator.

Not visible is the MAP, it's the only thing that unbolts from the TB and is the only thing on the TB that is replaceable, by the looks of things. (so won't come as part of the TB)
I can't find an Idle Bypass (Or TPS) listed for one of these cars and they don't look like they come out of the TB, bugger!

 

[A3jeroen]

Looks like you're right. Still cleaning all contacts with electrical contact cleaner (notWD40) might be a good start.
No vacuum leaks?

gr J

 

[portland_bill]

You are correct that the bottom left unit is the idle speed actuator. The attached file gives a detailed description of its operation from eLEARN, the Fiat repair manual. Sadly, it states that this unit is part of the throttle body, but it is likely to be just a bit gummy.

When the engine is started from cold, the idle actuator should be open. If you disconnect the plug soon after a cold start, it will stay open. Then stop the engine and spray some car cleaner into the air intake. Restart the engine and reconnect the idle valve. With a bit of luck, a few attempts at this may clean it and get it working again. You could try this with the engine running, but careful how much you spray at a time. Worth a try?

I've assumed you can open and read a Word document. If not, tell me what you can read and I'll try to convert it.

 

[Goudrons]

That's the little fecker, thanks Portland, I will give it a clean.

Yesterday it pulsed a little on cold idle, two seconds high, two seconds low and so forth.
Turned it off and back on again and it's steadied out the fast idle, warmed up ok (steadily reducing idle as it went) and idled ok once warm.

I might have a word with BBA Reman, they refurb these TB's, I wonder if the Idle Control Valve is available as part of a refurb kit?

I've found what I think is one listed, but not piccy to confirm it's the right one.
http://www.ignitioncarparts.co.uk/PartDetails.aspx?s_pc=FDB1555&s_vid=

 

[portland_bill]

That link does appear to be the right thing, but a pic would be good to confirm. Before buying a replacement, ask for detailed instructions on how to replace. Fiat say it is partof the throttle body, so it may be glued in somehow. Any replacement may need careful and accurate setting.

 

[Goudrons]

Bit of an update.
It's still doing it!

From cold start the RPM's rise, very fast idle (as normal)
After a few seconds they drop to fast idle warm up (as normal)
But they don't always drop to warm idle RPM once the engine has warmed up.

They stay on fast idle (warm up RPM).
Once it's become apparent it's doing it, the engine is warm.
Then if the igntion is turned off with a normal temp engine for around 2/3 minutes, then the fast idle stops and everything seems to return to normal upon restarting.
(that is until it's next cold start)

Once of twice from cold start, the very fast idle has pulsed up and down.
The RPM has flicked between the very fast idle and fast idle, perhaps once a second, up, down, up down for a few minutes.

Turning off the igntion and restarting seem to stop that behaviour as well, though it will do both.
Pulse at cold start (then my cure) then warm up and hang in fast idle (until I cure that again)


The temp gauge reads as normal and the fans kick in and out, so I'm thinking the coolant sensor appears ok.

I've had a go at cleaning the idle control valve, though it doesn't appear to have any effect.

I'm going to test the alt output and battery, on the off chance it's idling higher trying to charge and I guess I'll try and bleed the coolant see if the ECT is reading air.

After than it might be time to try another TB or get mine looked at by BBA Reman, as it does appear the ICV is buggering about, I think one of the motor coils in it may have broken.