Technical No heater

[The Panda Nut]

Pandabird 3 (2015 1.2 EAsy has no real heat from teh heater. I am being lazy and thought Id ask what people think.
It was working then one day I noticed is doesnt any more. No work don that should have affected anything and it has manual air con that still works. I guess its one of two things, either a blocked matrix, or a broken mixer flap. Has anyone else had anything similar on teh standard manual aircon car.
Any suggestions on what to do first. Im so overloaded with other stuff atm I donyt want to think about this...

IT HAS NOT GOT CLIMATE!

 

[PuntoHowTo]

Have you checked there is coolant in it? I’ve blown a water pump seal before and dumped the entire contents of the coolant tank in a few seconds.

If there is coolant then next to make sure there are no air locks, bleed the system,

Pandas run a constant loop of coolant from the engine regardless of the thermostat so it will be nothing to do with the thermostat.

Could be a blocked matrix but then if that was the case you’d have some pretty unpleasant gunk running around inside the pipes and engine block.

 

[jrkitching]

Have you checked there is coolant in it

My thought too, but I'm guessing this would have been the first thing you'd check.

You don't need me to warn you of the dangers of running low on coolant, but I will, just in case anyone else is reading this. So, for anyone else coming along later:

Uncommanded loss of heat from the heater is the classic sign of low coolant, and running with low coolant can cause major engine damage. So, to protect the engine, stop as soon as it is safe to do so and check the coolant level. If you need to remove the pressure cap before the engine has cooled down, take great care not to scald yourself.

or a broken mixer flap

Easily tested by moving the heat control knob and seeing if the temperature changes.

Pandas run a constant loop of coolant from the engine regardless of the thermostat so it will be nothing to do with the thermostat.

Don't rule it out completely.

If the thermostat fails open, then the coolant may never reach its proper operating temperature and heater output will be reduced. This happens quite often; the internal seal in the thermostat is known to perish with age/time. But you'd notice this first on the temperature gauge; if it had failed to the point that heater output was significantly affected, it'd clearly be running very cold.

Check that the temperature gauge reaches the midway mark after a reasonable time, and then stays there.

A failing thermostat often gives itself away by the needle staying just below the halfway point, but rarely getting there. I've had this on one of my own cars.

If you have one of the base model Pandas without a temperature gauge, and coolant levels are normal, I'd definitely suspect the thermostat.

 

[KPat]

Here is the beast. I wouldn't want anything to go wrong with it. Some repairs mean taking the dash out.

Driver side.



1. Filter door.

2. A/C evaporator housing

3. Heater matrix housing

4. Temperature flap actuator

5. Scuttle air intake.

D. A/C evaporator condense drain hose connection.



Passenger side.



6. Heater matrix housing door

7. Fan motor

8. Air flow direction flap motor.

9. facia air outlet.

10. Demister air outlet.

11. Heater supply pipes.

12. A/C evaporator connection pipes on bulkhead plate.

 

[jrkitching]

Some repairs mean taking the dash out.

Together with both doors and the steering column.

The heater box assembly is pretty much the first thing that goes into the bodyshell when it's being built.

Two experienced home mechanics who'd not done one before reported spending a week changing a heater box in a 500. A highly experienced Fiat tech who'd done this a number of times before set aside a full day. It's not a job to be taken lightly.

A complete OEM new one is now likely close on £2000, and individual parts are not available from Fiat. How are you supposed to know that a secondhand one from a breakers does not have a similar fault.

There's a good reason why SCS developed their 'unofficial' repair. It's saved quite a few folks quite a lot of money.

The main takeaway is to be very wary indeed if you are buying a used 500 or Panda with automatic climate control.

Fortunately none of this is relevant for the OP, who has very clearly told us that his car does not have climate!

 

[koalar]

Put your hand on the two pipes that go to the heater matrix

If there not getting hot, I wouldn't drive the car until it's fixed

 

[KPat]

Two experienced home mechanics who'd not done one before reported spending a week changing a heater box in a 500.

It would take me a year, or two, then.

 

[puntodad19]

Yes, and what colour is the expansion tank, and coolant now, a picture would be good...

 

[varesecrazy]

Pandabird 3 (2015 1.2 EAsy has no real heat from teh heater. I am being lazy and thought Id ask what people think.
It was working then one day I noticed is doesnt any more. No work don that should have affected anything and it has manual air con that still works. I guess its one of two things, either a blocked matrix, or a broken mixer flap. Has anyone else had anything similar on teh standard manual aircon car.
Any suggestions on what to do first. Im so overloaded with other stuff atm I donyt want to think about this...

IT HAS NOT GOT CLIMATE!

Basic system, probably changed very little from my 2004

Losing coolant isn't always OBVIOUS..

Use the torch method to see the coolant level on the side of the COLD Radiator,

Quick and SAFE

 

[The Panda Nut]

Basic system, probably changed very little from my 2004

Losing coolant isn't always OBVIOUS..

Use the torch method to see the coolant level on the side of the COLD Radiator,

Quick and SAFE

There is absolutely no water loss visible. Its been the same for 6 months. I check them all weekly. Im thinking of trying a radiator cleaner first. As its an air blending heater the matrix should be hot all the time and thus you get instant heat if the flap opens. The best we get now is luke warm. What I want to avoid is having to extract the matrix. Maybe a forlorn hope.

 

[koalar]

Put your hand on the underside of the radiator top hose

Start the engine from cold, see if its leaking past the thermostat, stopping the engine getting up to full temperature

I guess your model doesn't have a temperature guage, you can check by using a scan tool

Put your hand on the two pipes that go through the bulkhead to the matrix they should be very hot after a couple of miles, with the blowers off

If one's a lot hotter than the other it's likely to be blocked

 

[varesecrazy]

There is absolutely no water loss visible. Its been the same for 6 months. I check them all weekly. Im thinking of trying a radiator cleaner first. As its an air blending heater the matrix should be hot all the time and thus you get instant heat if the flap opens. The best we get now is luke warm. What I want to avoid is having to extract the matrix. Maybe a forlorn hope.

So the hoses get HOT quickly..?

 

[koalar]

So the hoses get HOT quickly..?

Correct

We need feedback from the three hoses

Only adjusts cold to warm out of the heater is normally a stuck open or seal missing on the thermostat, the bottom of rad top hose will not stay cold when the engine is started, should stay cold for a couple of minutes , which is the most likely

Blowing cold or warm at idle, but hot if the revs are raised is normally an air lock or low coolant, which can lead to further problems if left

Inlet hose on the matrix much hotter than the outlet with the blower off, would suggest a blocked heater matrix, unlikely but can lead to further problems if left,


All of which can be diagnosed without guessing,.or picking up a spanner

Only if the two hoses that are going through the bulkhead (blower off) are both hot and the cabin is only warm (blower on) would you start to look at the blend flap

 

[The Panda Nut]

Correct

We need feedback from the three hoses

Only adjusts cold to warm out of the heater is normally a stuck open or seal missing on the thermostat, the bottom of rad top hose will not stay cold when the engine is started, should stay cold for a couple of minutes , which is the most likely

Blowing cold or warm at idle, but hot if the revs are raised is normally an air lock or low coolant, which can lead to further problems if left

Inlet hose on the matrix much hotter than the outlet with the blower off, would suggest a blocked heater matrix, unlikely but can lead to further problems if left,


All of which can be diagnosed without guessing,.or picking up a spanner

Only if the two hoses that are going through the bulkhead (blower off) are both hot and the cabin is only warm (blower on) would you start to look at the blend flap

Ive been stonewalling the whole issue in my mind so just havnt thought or looked at it. The engine runs warm if the temperature gauge is to be believed. I must check the matrix hoses and feed back. Thanks for the help all.

 

[The Panda Nut]

So the hoses get HOT quickly..?

Ive just been and had a look.
1 The car is cold
2 Start up
3 It warms as expected. Matirx hoses - bottom one gets pretty warm quite soon. Rad hoses stay cold.
Suggests the thermostat is closed as expected?
4 The upper hose going into the bulkead gets only mildly luke warm
5 The lower hose going into the bulkhead gets pretty warm
Suggests blockage at the matrix?
6 Inside the car A/c is off
7 Set to coldand it blows cold.
8 Moving the control to max heat and the airinside is warm... not hot. Setting the controls to cold blows cold again.
suggests the flap is working?

To me this suggests a blocked matrix. I wonder if something has got dropped into the rad and is causing this.

My thoughts are
Remove the throttle body and airbox, battery and ECUs to get access and
remove the hoses from the matrix connections and try putting a hose on the cold pipe and back flushing. Add rad cleaner, leave a few days and then change the coolant id it works. I need to check if the coolant been changed in the recent past, I suspect its never been done in 10 years.

Any comments suggestions based on this would be appreciated.

 

[The Panda Nut]

I have just checked the warranty, so if the heater matrix need replacement its covered ... possibly. It may need to be leaking.... I suppose the first step is to try a claim and see how fast they turn it down. The MOT said it needs two handbrake cables and they should be covered so a trip to the garage. I dont relish taking on a heater matrix so I hope my local man can tell tehm what they need to hear and get it done.
This vindictes my assertion that coolant should be changed not left!