Technical No body will solve

[acementura]

Stilo jtd 8v 115 won't start, does bump, done the usual suspects, it's not plug's, battery,hp fuel pump, fuel sender, earth's, fuses, cam, crank, fuel pressure sensor's, keys/immobiliser, what else is there??? Anyone care to have a guess! I'm pretty much stumped, even my local garage had no joy, no fault codes coming up, fedup with parking on hills and pushing it, someone please hit the nail on the head for me,,,,

 

[Thefox]

1: Have you checked diesel leak off.?
2: when it doesn't start what is the rail fuel pressure?
3: try connecting a battery boost pack on, sometimes the starter motor can draw a too high amp rate leaving the engine ecu voltage too low.
4: check for crank signal

 

[acementura]

Hi,, 1. Yes. 2. Just with ignition on 7.4 bar. 3. Used a multimeter on battery while cranking on a new bosch 64 amp heavy duty, n it stayed above ten volts,,, dunno if thats answers that? And 4. Errr I carnt remember I think that had a rpm reading, plus I've changed the crank sensor! ,, I'll check these again tomorrow. But for now any other suggestions for me to have a look at tomorrow aswell would b much appreciated guys n girls,, and thanks thefox for ur suggestions,, keep em coming...

 

[Thefox]

How was diesel leak off checked??
You need to check the fuel in the fuel rail using a diagnostic computer when cranking the engine. It should be above 250bar, ideally close to 300bar.
Using the same computer you should be able to check crank signal on cranking and also check the voltage at the ecu using the computer again on live data, actual data or active data function

 

[stradaman]

Simple answer is, you have low compression. Bump starting proves this. Buy some easy start for diesels, and try starting it from cold with it sprayed in intake.
The 8v engine does wear, and cause low compression.
Iam surprised the garage did not do a compression test! Find a new garage!!

 

[VaryValve]

Stilo jtd 8v 115 won't start, does bump, done the usual suspects, it's not plug's, battery,hp fuel pump, fuel sender, earth's, fuses, cam, crank, fuel pressure sensor's, keys/immobiliser, what else is there??? Anyone care to have a guess! I'm pretty much stumped, even my local garage had no joy, no fault codes coming up, fedup with parking on hills and pushing it, someone please hit the nail on the head for me,,,,

What is the mileage?.

Crank speed also important...is it really a good battery?...starter motor efficient?.

 

[johnson550]

Hi have a look at what this bloke is doin on youtube I know its a 1.6 hes messin about with but if you have electrical problem it might help

 

[Artermis]

Do these have the fuel cut off in even of accident - I know alfas do.


Typically under the passenger seat an unassuming black box with a rubber squishy push button on the top. Pushing that resets the fuel cut off.

 

[dtimmins1985]

Do these have the fuel cut off in even of accident - I know alfas do.


Typically under the passenger seat an unassuming black box with a rubber squishy push button on the top. Pushing that resets the fuel cut off.

If this was his problem - it wouldn't bump start fuel cut off disables fuel pump totally until pressed in as you say.

 

[acementura]

Hi guys, I'm back lol, yh still not got it to even cough, only with easy start, anyway I'm gonna start from the beginning n list stuff I've done n tryd n checked, soooon. Tbc...

 

[Ralf S.]

JTD has the fuel shut-off in the passenger footwell... next to the door shut, just under the glovebox.

I'd have thought that if it's cranking quickly enough, it must start if there's fuel in there and the compression isn't completely knackered..?

My money is on no fuel getting through. It's unlikely that all 4 cylinders suddenly lost so much compression that even just one doesn't "catch".

Check that fuel is getting through to the fuel rail and that the injectors are firing. If you have one of those glass-bottom bulbs (T50?) with the bent over tangs, you can straighten the tangs and they'll fit into the connectors on the injector plug. If the bulb flashes, the injector is getting juice.

Is the timing okay? If it has slipped by a large amount, then everything might be working but at different times.




Ralf S.

 

[acementura]

Hi ralf, this is long so just gonna b brief, I've changed the engine with a 40000 mile one that came with all the bits including clutch n flywheel but no turbo, alternator, starter,, this was dew to valve damage caused by belt slipping a notch or two , but I had the starting issue before,

 

[acementura]

It did bump before n garage said they think it was something to do with fuel pressure, so I tried changing hp pump n it worked for half a day and same wen I changed glow plug's, , in new engine it won't bump it doesn't even chough wen u crank. I've got no warning lights or error codes., I've changed the fuel sender, starter, battery, checked the wiring

 

[Ralf S.]

Hi ralf, this is long so just gonna b brief, I've changed the engine with a 40000 mile one that came with all the bits including clutch n flywheel but no turbo, alternator, starter,, this was dew to valve damage caused by belt slipping a notch or two , but I had the starting issue before,

So... assuming the engine is timed correctly, since there was a problem on the old engine too... it has to be fuel delivery related.

You have to check how much of the diesel you're getting at the injector rail when the beast isn't starting. I dunno if you've done this.

1) I guess you've changed the fuel filter. It would have to be a major internal collapse to block fuel flow.. but if you haven't changed it, change it anyway.

2) Your fuel regulator may be letting fuel in.. but not letting it out. Disconnect the "out" from the regulator to the injector rail that the injectors are attached to... and see if anything flows out when you crank the engine.

3) Also.. take out the fuel pump and have a look at it. It lifts fuel from the bottom of the pump (which sits at the bottom of the tank) to the outlet pipe on top of the pump via a rubber hose. This hose could be split or loose or disconnected altogether so the pump is working but the fuel gets to the split or loose joint and leaks out of the pump. Again, you can test this by taking the fuel hose off at the fuel rail in the engine bay and seeing how much diesel comes out when the engine is cranking. You should be getting a regular stream.

4) If the fuel pump isn't working (or only works sporadically) then test the current to it. It should get current when the ignition is switched on (to prime the fuel rails) and then "pulses" of power as the engine cranks. Connect a bulb to the connector and see if it flashes when you turn on the ignition and when you crank the engine.

5) If no juice at the pump... check the fuel pump relays... since this problem sounds "temperamental" and that suggests electrics rather than something mechanical.


Ralf S.

 

[acementura]

Hi peeps, I ain't had the chance to fiddle with her ( Oooooo errr Mrs) last few days, but will tomorrow, for now tho do u reckon the fuel rail and sensor which is different to the original one could b a prop, the original one had sensor in the middle of the rail this other one has it at the end, also the sensor has a larger thred n slightly different colour coding,,

 

[Ralf S.]

Hi peeps, I ain't had the chance to fiddle with her ( Oooooo errr Mrs) last few days, but will tomorrow, for now tho do u reckon the fuel rail and sensor which is different to the original one could b a prop, the original one had sensor in the middle of the rail this other one has it at the end, also the sensor has a larger thred n slightly different colour coding,,

Without knowing where the fuel rail and sensor came from, I wouldn't like to say... but that might be at least a part of the problem. Don't you have the rail and sensor from a JTD115?

Ralf S.

 

[acementura]

Hi, yh I've got the rail, anyway I checked that fuel is coming out of the hp pump to the rail n it wasn't so change the pump n now fuel is coming out of the pump n through the rail to the injectors, but alas the battery wernt up to it, so it's on charge, let u no tomo if it's working, fingers crossed,,,,,

 

[acementura]

Also there's a couple of things I'd like to get clear, 1. I no that the crank sensor usually gives problems wen it's hot but if it's completely shot would it stop the car from starting? 2. do u need to do anything to the ecu if u change the engine? And 3.is 250 odd rpm wen cranking enough to start the car?

 

[Ralf S.]

Also there's a couple of things I'd like to get clear, 1. I no that the crank sensor usually gives problems wen it's hot but if it's completely shot would it stop the car from starting? 2. do u need to do anything to the ecu if u change the engine? And 3.is 250 odd rpm wen cranking enough to start the car?

1) Yes, a completely knackered sensor would stop the car starting. BUT a knackered sensor would also stop the fuel pump from "pulsing" fuel out when you crank the engine. If you get fuel when you crank the engine, the crank sensor must be telling the pump that the engine is turning, so it's okay.

2) If the engine is exactly the same engine as before (115 JTD vs 115 JTD) then the ECU doesn't know anything has changed and will send it the same signals as before.. and the engine will respond how it's supposed to.

Anyway this problem happened before the engine swap.. so you're over-thinking it. It could be the ECU is doing something strange... but let's worry about that later. ECU's go wrong less than other stuff.

3) I'm not sure. I think 250rpm is the bare minimum... but if you can charge the battery so you get a proper job cranking speed, that will be better.

Are you now getting fuel out when before you weren't? Sounds like it almost has to start... ?


Ralf S.