Tuning Newbie with an idea

[AmbitiousButRubbish]

Out of interest, isnt the100hp rear axle the same as the standard one, but with discs instead of drums?

 

[jrkitching]

Out of interest, isnt the100hp rear axle the same as the standard one, but with discs instead of drums?

No, it's different.

How different, and whether the aftermarket axles intended for the drum braked models can be easily modified to fit (some claim to be compatible with the 100HP axle part number but this hasn't yet been confirmed) is still not known.

You can buy an aftermarket axle for the disc braked 500's, but not the disc braked Panda 100HP. The 500 axle is known not to fit the 100HP; it's slightly too wide.

I don't think it would be too hard for the aftermarket axle suppliers to produce a batch of 100HP axles, and this would be most helpful.

The 4x4 rear subframe assembly is completely different and in view of the limited market, I'd be surprised if aftermarket parts will ever be available for this. OEM 4x4 subframes seem to be unavailable in the UK. It may be possible to source them from Europe, but a complete subframe assenbly will cost more than the value of any 4x4 that's likely to need one.

Anyone with either a 100HP or a 4x4 that's still in reasonable condition would be well advised to do what they can to prevent these parts from corroding further.

 

[AmbitiousButRubbish]

So, Im back
Firstly, Ide like to thank all of you who have replied. Secondly, Ide like to say sorry for the repeated questions.
Thirdly, I have an idea;
Would it be possible to put the 100hp engine, with its ECU, therefore its immo, therefore its key, in a 1.2 4x4, but keeping the 1.2 loom, therefore ECU, therefore key. I.e. use both ECUs and both keys, in the same car?
Thanks!

 

[koalar]

Would it be possible to put the 100hp engine, with its ECU, therefore its immo, therefore its key,

No

Immo and keys are in the body computer not the ECU

Just buy two cars and swap the engine and electrics/electronics from the donor

It’s the only sensible way
By the way anyone put the standard 100hp on a rolling road

I have seen the standard 69HP and that made a calculated 75HP on a rolling road even allowing for errors I guess it’s pretty close to 75HP

 

[AmbitiousButRubbish]

Alright, 2 more questions;
1.2 4x4 and 1.3 cross, are the gearboxese the same? Or is the diesel stronger?
And secondly, like a broken record, is it possible to find out if the 100hp 6 speed gearbox can fit with the 4x4 bits, without pulling them to bits?
Thanks!

 

[DaveMcT]

100HP has a six-speed box and a much bigger roller bearing on the input shaft. There are probably other differences compared to the five speed.
Diesel and 1.2 have a five speed box. Diesel has a taller final drive ratio.

The diesel and 100HP both have the larger clutch, but I hear that remapping the diesel leads to clutch slip so it's likely the gearbox is fine with standard power delivery but struggles when it upped by 20bhp (or more). That suggests it's the same gearbox except for taller final ratio.

I have a poorly diesel (needs new cam chain) and plan to fix and map it so would like to know if a heavier duty clutch can be fitted.

 

[koalar]

100HP has a six-speed box and a much bigger roller bearing on the input shaft. There are probably other differences compared to the five speed.
Diesel and 1.2 have a five speed box. Diesel has a taller final drive ratio.

The diesel and 100HP both have the larger clutch, but I hear that remapping the diesel leads to clutch slip so it's likely the gearbox is fine with standard power delivery but struggles when it upped by 20bhp (or more). That suggests it's the same gearbox except for taller final ratio.

I have a poorly diesel (needs new cam chain) and plan to fix and map it so would like to know if a heavier duty clutch can be fitted.

2 plate with higher clamping force is available off the shelf for a price

£250-£350

Not nice to drive with around town normally

 

[DaveMcT]

The old clutch in the 1.2 was down to he rivets. The rivets were not rubbing but were very close and the clutch had that nasty, bendy push-back feeling that Fiat clutches do before they fail to open at all.

The new plate is about 2mm thicker (I forgot to measure it before fitting). The pedal action is night and day different though I have yet to road test the car. Drive shafts are in, oil is filled and tomorrow should have the job done.

 

[AmbitiousButRubbish]

So is it possible to put decent power through all 4 wheels of a panda? (For less than say the cost of a golf R? Obviously the panda is more work, but its more special)
Not aiming for golf R power, maybe 500 abarth power? 140-160bhp? Or is that too much to ask for the stock 4x4 system?
Obviously the brakes/suspension/tyres etc all need upgrading to match, I just want to know if the 1.4 or 1.4 turbo will play ball, or just break everything?
Thanks!

 

[koalar]

Max Torque is 206 Nm for the standard gearbox, it’s possible to rebuild the box with uprated bearings (Straight swap) but that’s a specialist expensive job.

No idea about the rest of the 4x4 system

 

[DaveMcT]

If you want Abarth power just get an Abarth engine, box and electronics. The first unknown is compatibility of instruments panels. The second is whether you'll ever get insurance for it. You would be better buying a 500 Abarth.

 

[AmbitiousButRubbish]

I really dont like the fiat 500.
Plus if I could make do with the FWD there are many other cars to choose from

 

[The Panda Nut]

A Panda 100HP on the right tires will do great in the rain. Had mine for 8 years and never found the suspension too hard. And I'm not young.

gr J

I totally agree. Wheel spinning was never an issue on the right tyres, but boy oh boy are they'kinappalling in snow. Panda 100 is by far and away the worst car I have ever owned for grip when there is snow on the ground. The ultimate Achilles heel of the automotive world. It took me 30 mimutes and a lot of hard work to get 30feet out of the office car park. Apart from that 1 isssue I think the Panda 100 is the best car I have everhad. The Panda 4x4 will never ever get stuck unless you take it into the amazon jungle, but its not a 4x4 for performance and defaults to 4x2 unless wheel slip is detected, and I dont think it does it at all above 30kph so it will not give any on road advantage at all on just wet roads. The 4x4 is fairly brisk and great fun and it will shrug off off roading in 95% of circumstances but its not an Audi quattro and never will be. changing either engine or gearbox would not work without some serious engineering and would almost certainly ruin the car. I have now had Panda 4x4's for coming up 6 years and love them to bits. May be more power would be fun but with a crawler 1st gear it would also be a colossal pain and would destroy the clutch when you stoipped using 1st at all and at £600 plus formthe flywheel its a direction that could be compared to raving lunacy. There are so many things that link via the ECU changing anything substantial other than the fuel map is inadvisable. Panda 4x4 handling is also really not up to much power increase it was not designed as a performance car and would probably end up killing you or someone else if mucked about. I am sure it could all be done but the cost would be stratospheric. I wouldnt want to be anywhere near a seriously souped up Panda 4x4.

 

[DaveMcT]

The Panda Cross has to be the ultimate small 4x4. You get the diesel torque (add a remap if you fancy it) and the cool looks. But it's a mountain goat. It's not a tool for the Pike Peak.