General New Ducato Motorhome owner

[Jifcom]

Hi Folks

Thought I would just say hello here.
I have just brought my first Motorhome, A 2000 Bessacarr E725 based on the Fiat 2.8 idTD engine but that's all I knew about it until I joined here?
using the Fiat ePER VIN search, I found out its a "231, Ducato'94" and can at least find spare part Numbers now

But Im after the basic owners manual, I had a look in the Ducato downloads and can only see X250 manuals.
Can anyone help? either where to find one or a scan/PDF version somewhere?

Many thanks for reading.

Regards

Jon

 

[varesecrazy]

Hi , and welcome,
is that an A class..??,

I'm not too familiar with your model,
any CD-rom manuals on Ebay..??,
Charlie - Oxford

 

[hofmanwim]

hello all, my name is wim,
i'm also a new member on this forum. We, my wife aand I, are the owners of a Elnach-sleek 585 from 1999. A fiat Ducato engine type 2.8idTD. The code in the garanty document is called 231 CABI l2.8TD. So we have the same problem as Ron.. al engines on this forum and downloads name type 244 or 250..?

we hope to get some information for downloads for manuals etc..
thanx and regards, wim

 

[carlos22]

Hello, Carlos from Spain with same probem. My VIN is ZFZ2300000612... and it is a 2003 year motorhome based on a 2002 vehicle, 2.8 jtd. Any one has a technicall manual? I imagine e-learn covers only newer models, and previous are on paper. Any one has it scanned?

Thankyou

 

[robin123]

No manuals were produced for these models as they are classed as commercial vehicles

 

[colstown]

Hi Guys. I dont have a manual but I do have a 2.8idtd Ducato A class on a Maxi chassis.
You have an Iveco engine in effect but its a kinda halfway house between the previous 2.5 and the 2.8jtd
If its a maxi you'll have 16" wheels and a bigger slightly better gearbox
The engine for the most part is the same as the slightly later JTD. Both could have been bought at the same time back then
So for servicing it pretty basic stuff
Change the oil and oil filter regular and if a camper and even if you dont do 6000m per year change the oil and filter at the end of each season. My own campers oil is still clear and clean after 16 years.
All service parts are readily available and both oil and fuel filters are spin-on
The timing belt should be changed every 4 years minimum and is basically the same t belt service as the later 2.8JTD
The exhaust may or may not have a CAT and it doesnt matter either way what you fit as there is no ECU to control emissions and either way has no bearing on MOTs
There is a security device to read a chip in the key and it gives problems. Best done away with and easliy done
Power is a bit of a problem on the 4 ton models and if some of you find you are forever reving the engine and changing gears I can write a post on how to move to a more torquey type of power. No smoke, better mpg. Been doen 100s of time of basic old school turbo diesels.
In fact there are those and I am one of those who would have said a few years ago this is the one to have.
It is direct injection which is easy stared and is turbo but it doesnt have a computer and doe not have fault codes or limp modes etc.
Its a heck of an engine for the mechanicaly minded who want to do their own work.
Front springs are often a problem and there are all sorts of overpriced versions around but take my word for it front springs on this axle weight are not rocket science and there are heavy duty version available from your local parts shop that fit, no problems
Top strut mounts need replaced as do the springs.
The springs were a problem waiting to happen from the day the thing was built I think.
Springs are heavy, real heavy on these maxi's and not a job for little screw spring compressors.
I have a hydraulic compressor if anyone is near me in NI and I will hlpe you change springs but I have a lot of pains so you have to do the most of the screwing as such.
Air suspension is available from the www. Near all use Rubina air bags and Rubina are a recognised manufacturer so there's not much point in looking for over priced branded kits.
The turbo's very occasionally die but a cassette can be bought for little and kept on board. You'll probably never need it once you have it but it could save 1000s if you start to pour out smoke. Any good small garage man can and do changed them. A cassette is the bit in the middle with the turbine wheels, casing and seals. As long as you dotn drive fro many miles the other tow housings are likely to be fine. That is why cassettes have became popular.
I do not know everything about these idtd's but I was a mechanic, old school and I'll share what I know of it helps.

 

[carlos22]

Hi, colstown, thank you very much for your answers, my motor home is also a Maxi, with 16" wheels, and comon rail so I assume it is a jtd. I would like to know what you mean about "a bigger slightly better gearbox", and maybe you can clarify me one thing. I heard that the ammount of gearbox oil was increased, but I do not know how much it should be, do you know this?
Another thing I am really curious about: reprograming the ecu. May be you can tell me what beneffits does it bring, and would it decrease the life of my engine? I heard that it increases the turbo performance and may have bad effects on it... How do they reprogram, and what parameters do they modify? I am not a mechanic, but I am an engineer and have some knowledge about...
Thank you in advance

 

[colstown]

You dont say what year your JTD is or if its 2.8 5 speed

If it is the same basic model as my own then it will have the larger gearbox
That gearbox has an oil drain and has a refill/level plug at the R/H side of the diff. Long half shaft side.
That gear box often gets refilled with ATF (transmission fluid) but operates much better with a modern EP oil. Check your local temperature for grade
75/80 is popular and that is what is in my own.

The older idtd/tdi sufferes from too little torque.
Yes it has near to 122bhp which is only 6 below the JTD of the same year but because a Motorhome is heavily loaded at all times its a lot of work to drive
The JTD is similar but unlike the idtd there is no means to mechanically adjust it

The ECU reprogramme/remap only has to deliver just a slight amount more fuel in the lower rev range to enable just enough exhaust gases to spin up the turbo.
Once the turbo has began to properly boost the inlet pressure the fuelling system will deliver more fuel to match the air quantity and you have the result required.
The older idtd in a MH has to be doing 50mph80kph to get into 5th gear and can barely pull 5th below 50mph on any noticeable incline.
A slight increase in low rpm fuel lowers that to just above 40mph
So in other words instead of having to get to 50mph its happily go in to 5th at around 42/43mph on the level or 45/46 up a slight incline.
Before I was taking races at anything resembling a hill which meant I was often going too fat for economy whereas now I do not often exceed 60mph on main roads or 50mph on lessor roads.
I get to go most places in 4th or 5th gear which was definatley not the case before
It doesnt sound like much but once you have you be very pleased.
A basic remap will not increase the turbo boost pressure but will widen the power band
The mph will most likely get better unless you are driving it like a mad man
The remapper may offer you other services or greater bhp but thats not what your after. Just an increase in low rpm power is what your after.
He may offer you an EGR delete which is a debatable subject but personally I'd get an EGR delete done every time because the EGR is a fault just waiting to happen. And before soem do gooder starts on about NOX remember that a faulty EGR will emit a huge increase in particulate and may and often does continue until the next MOT such that the overall amount of pollution emitted exceeds anything that will be emitted with no EGR system at all
Yes EGR systems reduce NOX but they are so unreliable that they somewhat defeat themselves and these older Motorhomes are prime examples

As to an increase in torque damaging your engine or gearbox
Your engine will not have any more power, just an increase in low down power/torque.
It will actually have to do much less revving and to me it feel like the engine is having a much easier time of it.
I cannot see how an increase in low rpm fueling could damage a turbo without an increase in boost pressure and even a slight increase in boost pressure normally doesnt do any damage.
Low down torque is harder for any gearbox to transmit but they dont seem to have any problems as this is not massive torque increase as in motorsport diesels.
The colossal reduction in gear-changes especially in and out of 5th gear will reduce wear on the 5th gear hub. Once you have more torque you'll only use 1/2/3rd for starting off and town traffic. Most other situations will be 4th and 5th work and near everywhere will be 5th gear unless you live in the mountains.
So overall I feel its worth it and we have had many done with no ill effects
Note I am not involved in the tuning industry so I have nothing to gain except of course a much more relaxed drive and better mpg.
My wife who also drives our MHs also notices the ease with which things take place instead of having to rev the engine just to the end of the power band before changing gear each time.
She would not drive this last MK when we got it asking when we would be getting the torque adjusted as she see's it because "I hate all that gear-changing"

We have a remapper locally whom I just about know and who have done EGR delete's on our cars.
They have MHs sitting at their place regulary and not just old ones but fresh ones also.
This is mostly chasing the DPF problems and/or looking for better mpg
Hope this helps you
Dee