Off Topic Need some help, trying to make headlight projectors water-proof

[mzhussein]

Hi all,

this is my subject:



a Hella E55 bi-xenon beastie

i need to make this watertight!

basically im aiming to have bi-xenon 3000k fogs installed in my lower O/s and N/S grills, but need a hand in making them water-proof....as you can see, atm they are nowhere near....before 30/04/11!

from a reputable source (HIDplanet and TRS forums) the housings get to about 150 deg in free air in operation after about 30 mins, with no cooling (so just sitting there)

now i know fibre glass can easily handle this heat, im kinda thinking to cover them in a fibre glass jacket....

but equally any ideas (or hints and tips for fibre gassing (never done it before)) are appreciated

Thanks all

 

[multiplied]

hi, i have done little fibregalssing, just minor repair work. good way would be to buy some isopon or is it isopan?, anyway, blue can or tube from halfords & a few sheets of the thin bendy metal that you can shape & cut with scissors. mould the metal (mesh) around area to be fibreglassed & apply fibreglass. do as neat a job as you can (use a brush with water to smooth around fibreglass once on mesh), as once set, its very hard stuff!.
will you need access to part your sealing?, if so, maybe once set, use a large diameter hole saw to cut a perfect hole underneath to replace bulbs etc.

 

[mzhussein]

im going to graft a short piece of drain pipe to the back with an end cap so i can change the bulb easily, its just the gap between the bowl and the lense which perplexes me lol

i work part time in homebase, so ill grab some scrap chicken wire to "wrap around" then fibre glass away....the finish isnt important as youll only see the lenses ans they have chrome shrouds...

EDIT:
also that metal tab is for a beam pattern adjuster to sit on, im fixing them permanently flat, so will be cutting it off!

 

[multiplied]

like the drain pipe method, good call, should work a treat pal

 

[Shadeyman]

from a reputable source (HIDplanet and TRS forums) the housings get to about 150 deg in free air in operation after about 30 mins, with no cooling (so just sitting there)

now i know fibre glass can easily handle this heat, im kinda thinking to cover them in a fibre glass jacket....

When you enclose the light in a water tight container the temperature will rise well above 150C.

While they are uncovered they have cold free air cooling them and maintaining a steady temp. Once the light is covered it will no longer have cold free air to cooling it. The temperature of the air trapped inside will raise negating any cooling effect it previously had so I'd expect it to reach very high temperatures. Perhaps you could test this by shutting the light in a container with a high temperature thermometer and switching the light on for an hour.

I doubt very much a PCV drain pipe would handle the temperatures involved.

You have to some how maintain the cooling once its enclosed. Perhaps by creating a baffled enclosure that allows air in but traps water?

 

[mzhussein]

your completley right, i initially posted up whilst rushing out of work, this crossed my mind whilst on the journey home....

i know the fibre glass will be OK up to silly temperatures, others have one it and no reported melt downs....just need a replacement for the drain pipe....although the bowl doesn't get that hot its the lens that gets hot, mainly because the bowl is covered in chrome...ill see if i can get a metal tube of the correct diameter...

what about something as simple as slots in the top of the enclosure once its water tight?

 

[richydraper]

heatsinks...?

a man of your cal-i-ber mr hussain should be able to do sommin like this... you'd end up with sommin looking like a demented sea urchin but if its hidden by your bumpers then why would it matter... dont forget youll have to seal the lens to its cradle with some sort of high temp silicone sealant.

you could wrap the chicken wire and then aquire some CPU heat sinks or similar if you 'score' the valleys of the heat sink with a hacksaw to make them easier to bend you could then use minimal fiberglass

@multiplied:- its Isopon P40 (the same people who make the body filler P38) its a short weave fiberglass bridging compound proper easy to work with i find plastic sheeting (tesco bag) works well to smooth out if removed before fully hard. you'll need a fine mesh chicken wire tho cos its properly flexible!

 

[Shadeyman]

Here's a simple solution.

Purchase Mercedes E55 shrouds and install your Hella E55 bi-xenon beasties into them. Then find something to fit onto the rear of them like this guy did.

Also attached a PDF document of a guy that retro fitted some E55's into his golf. Might give you some idea of the materials he used.

 

[mzhussein]

ah ha...thats pretty much exactly what i did to fit the E55's in my main headlights...except my wiring is FAR superior....hidplanet is a good read once you get into it....wish id found it BEFORE i did my mod, wouldve taken the guess work out...kinda defeats the point of installing the HID full beams if your still going ot have the poo halogens every time you flick the switch...was a PITA to make it work

id thought about using E55 shrouds, but they will look out of place in the lower grills and i dont think they will fit (and there EXPENSIVE)

what ive found is some 64mm aluminium pipe, going to fibre glass the gap and graft the alu pipe onto the back and attach heaksinks to the alu pipe....and a rubber end cap on the end of the alu....

all in all, should be much more compact....just need to figure out where to put a switch...dont like making holes that you can see

 

[Shadeyman]

Aluminium pipe with vents/heatsinks seems a much better idea because PVC drain pipe softens if you immerse it in boiling water(100c).

E55 shrouds seem hard to come by but I'm sure a breaker somewhere would be able to supply you with some, I just like the look of them, black bottom grills with a dollop of chrome.

Bi-Xeon = High and Low beams.
Are you planning on using just the low, just the high, or both beams?

I created my own custom carbon fibre headlights and clocks console for my FJ1200 chopper. The carbon fibre kit isn't cheap but it's as strong as steel once its set and is resistant to high temps. Make your self a mold using anything that fits, old tin cans, tuperware etc then mold the carbon fibre around it.

I brought one similar to this.
http://www.carbonmods.co.uk/Products/Carbon-Fibre-Laminating-Starter-Kit__CMCFLK300.aspx

 

[mzhussein]

Aluminium pipe with vents/heatsinks seems a much better idea because PVC drain pipe softens if you immerse it in boiling water(100c).

Yeah i did some reading.....PVC = a no no....thanks for the kick lol

E55 shrouds seem hard to come by but I'm sure a breaker somewhere would be able to supply you with some, I just like the look of them, black bottom grills with a dollop of chrome.

If you JUST mean the chrome bit, then check! i got that thrown in when i bought the projectors...the bit I was referring to "not fitting" is the actual headlight casing....i agree, black grill with a dollop of chrome will look good...nd breakers tend to not want to separate the healdight, and they tend to go for over £100 each with the correct shouds

Bi-Xeon = High and Low beams.
Are you planning on using just the low, just the high, or both beams?

Oh i intend to utilise both, bit of a waste otherwise....the "end game" for me is to have the lights controlled by the PC so i dont need any switches, just having a few problems with a PC controlled relay board, dont think thatll be ready for 30th tho .....what ill wire up temporarily is a couple of togle switches controlling on/off and high/low.


Should be quite a sight 2 pairs of HID's illuminating the road ahead...especially if i can get the special 3000k bulbs in time...

I created my own custom carbon fibre headlights and clocks console for my FJ1200 chopper. The carbon fibre kit isn't cheap but it's as strong as steel once its set and is resistant to high temps. Make your self a mold using anything that fits, old tin cans, tuperware etc then mold the carbon fibre around it.

Damn! that would look quite nice...any pics of your custom job? ive already bought the fibre glass and associated stuff, cost me about £20...if it was going to be on display id probably consider the carbon fibre,but for this, possibly a bit overkill....but i didnt know you could get "DIY" kits....thanks for the link

also, thanks for the time put in to answer the Q's!

 

[richydraper]

high beam HIDs... is that going to be practical due to the 'warm-up' time?

 

[mzhussein]

that was an initial concern, but i run with them on all the time anyway, so it doesnt really matter.....

also the ballast you use makes a MASSIVE difference, the ones on ebay that 99% of people buy (from ebay and other sellers) are chinese cheapo ones....they can take up to 5 mins to heat up the bulb to full operating temp, they are also unstable and dont provide a sild 50W or 35W (depending on the type), this stresses out the bulb and you get olour shift and output degridation....but really good ballasts have you at full temp in 30 secs....currently mine take just under a minute from cold, and under 5 seconds from warm...

but cos there on all the time, when i "flash" there already hot, the shutter moves and you get an impressive swathe of light bursting out of the front of the car...

driving down country roads with tree cover, with full beams on is like a "tunnel of light" its quite impressive....

still waiting for my 3000k bulbs ....

 

[mzhussein]

updatings......

Last weekend i started the fabrication!
this is as i left them last weekend, will be picking up on friday, hopefully theyll get mounted on sat!!!!

I glued the alluminium pipe onto the back with quiksteel, then poured some thermal glue in ontop (thermal glue isnt very strong, so the quiksteel is for strength and thermal glue is for heat transfer)

I used 4mm thick aluminium pipe, a BITCH to cut when you only have a hacksaw (angle grinder blade gone), but a good workout lol. its so thick so that i dont need to use a heat-sink, the pipe is more than enough aluminium to dissipate the heat.

I then put the E55 shrouds on and wrapped it with aluminium mesh in preparation to be fibre glassed over...i did actually fibre glass one of them, but hands were wayyyy to sticky to pick up my phone to take a pic....lastly apologies for the pic quality its from my phone, will use a camera for the rest.

 

[Shadeyman]

Once you've fibre glassed over the aluminium mesh and everything is firmly stuck in place, how do you plan to change the bulbs, can it be done from the rear of the aluminium tubes?

 

[mzhussein]

yeah, thats the one picture thats missing, the back of the tube will have a rubber boot on it, much like a normal headlight, to allow access (allbeit cramped access) to change the bulb, although i dont anticipate having to change them any time soon, HIDs last a very very long time....

 

[Shadeyman]

The reason I asked is because the 4mm tube you used looks like scaffolding, if you need a cap for the rear of the tube you could try a Scaffold End Safety Cap. They're usually a tight fit so should give a good seal and could be easily altered to allow for wiring etc.

http://www.scaffolding-direct.co.uk...Caps_-_48.3mm_Tube_-_Yellow_400_Pack_664.aspx

 

[mzhussein]

almost, but not quite, its 63mm OD alu tube, i did consider scaffolding, but it was too narrow for what im doing, if anyones interested, scaffolding is a damn sight cheaper tho, im guessing because its produced in a much higher volume than the pipe i bought...

I have some rubber boots with jubilee clips on them to fit the alu pipe, ill put some pics up after fiddling tomorrow...

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

Random question, are you planning on using these as fog lamps?

 

[mzhussein]

ummmm, sort of, more just "driving lights" they can legally (putting asside the HID issue) be used as normal dipped beams, as the beam pattern will conform, and they can be dipped.

ive gone for 3000k for superior fog penetration though....