Technical Mild Hybrid..?

[varesecrazy]

Hi.

My 1242cc FIRE engined 500 is now ageing, it's my only VVT FIRE, and has been a disappointment compared to the Twinair engined cars I own,

Lower power, mpg and driveability

People initally said that the hybrid (firefly engine) was lacking in power..

Anybody gone from a TA to a Mild Hybrid?

Another point

Twinairs have been ZERO VED for the last 11 years, Just risen to £20 for a year..

How is the Firefly motor taxed?

The FIRE Is @£180..!

 

[ZaphodB]

The 500 hybrid ?

That's the 1Litre right , which is apparently 104grams emissions ( https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/car-stats/fiat-500-hatchback-10-mild-hybrid-3dr/101135/ )

Up to 2017 the rates are https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-tax-rate-tables/rates-for-cars-registered-on-or-after-1-march-2001
After 2017 the rates are https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-tax-rate-tables

So that makes the 500 hybrid £195 for the 2nd year from new onwards

The 500 Hybrid came out in 2020 so they're all in the after 2017 rate of £195

 

[varesecrazy]

Thanks, a Dutch regular was comparing the 1.2 Firefly with the 1.0

Its a modular motor so @ 300cc per cylinder Hybrid is a 3 pot, 1.2 is a 4 cyl

I Think hybrids are 3 cylinder ONLY..?


I am considering one for the next 5 years.. But don't want a gutless car,

Drive Hills and Motorways almost daily

 

[ZaphodB]

I am considering one for the next 5 years.. But don't want a gutless car,

Drive Hills and Motorways almost daily

I was contemplating the 500 Hybrid before I bought my Abarth595 (because I saw one locally and thought it looked very smart (it had a really nice set of multispoke alloys that set off the look lol)

I also didn't want a gutless engine (coming from a 90hp turbo smart) , I also contemplated the Twinair 500 , but these were older and I'd heard they had certain problems (doesn't everything lol)

I never got to actually try the Hybrid 500 because I found my Abarth very early on in the search.

Yes the 1Litre engine used in the 500 hybrid is a 3 pot NA with Hybrid outputting an apparent 70HP (it's the hybrid side of things that bring it up to an equivalent 70HP apparently , so don't expect a 70HP ICE engine with the hybrid adding some more to the mix - it doesn't. as far as I understand it)

This is what put me off , thinking it would be gutless, but as said I never got to try one so I can't comment

 

[GettinBetter]

... Just risen to £20 for a year..

Barstewards

Not the end of the world, but is any car tax free now, they seem to be quitely clawing any incentives back.

Vehicle tax rates

Tables showing the rates for vehicle tax for different types of vehicle.

www.gov.uk

I think as far as the OP goes.... One really must take the intended purchase for a test drive, there's just no other option really...

 

[rmjbn1]

I can only compare my old Euro4 60hp 1.2 FIRE to 1.0 Firefly Mild Hybrid when I hired a 500C

but yes I found the Firefly gutless by comparison. Very little torque.

Mostly rural driving, hilly terrain plus some motorway work.

I didn't hate it, but prefer my 1.2 FIRE. Had to work it quite hard, certainly used more fuel.

Found the regenerative breaking quite hard to predict too, as it cut in and out.

 

[ZaphodB]

but yes I found the Firefly gutless by comparison. Very little torque.

A measly 90Nm apparently

Come over to the dark side and get an Abarth, one more pot, 400cc extra and more than twice the HP at 165HP and 230Nm

and surprisingly not a lot to insure when I converted.

 

[puntodeltathema]

The base 145bhp Abarth 595 is fab - I don't understand why every home doesn't have one. Mine even rides better than the old 500 1.4 I had and is quieter at a cruise than a 2017 1.2S I also owned (which had masses of road noise).

Abarths have always struck me as good value secondhand too - they're a bit more niche than the regular 500, with strong demand for the latter commanding a premium, so year for year you don't necessarily pay significantly more for the Scorpion (at least in moderate trim). Though insurance will of course be more.

And linked to that, theft appears to be an issue in certain areas however. I note the 595 is no.8 in a list of most nicked cars I saw in the press somewhere the other day. Behind a clutch of Jaguar Land Rover products, naturally

 

[marcusgillies]

Hi.

My 1242cc FIRE engined 500 is now ageing, it's my only VVT FIRE, and has been a disappointment compared to the Twinair engined cars I own,

Lower power, mpg and driveability

People initally said that the hybrid (firefly engine) was lacking in power..

Anybody gone from a TA to a Mild Hybrid?

Another point

Twinairs have been ZERO VED for the last 11 years, Just risen to £20 for a year..

How is the Firefly motor taxed?

The FIRE Is @£180..!

I have had both the 85 (2016) and 105hp (2018) twin airs in 500C's both I feel were far superior and much more fun to drive than the 2 mild hybrids (both 2020) and the 500X sport I have owned since.
When I recently changed my 500X I was looking for a 105hp twin air but unfortunately they are like rocking horse doodoo.
If I could a fairly low milage one for sale I would snap it up in a heartbeat.
TheMild hybrid in my opinion is woefully underpowered, the mild hybrid bit does nothing more than make the left anger seat even more uncomfortable as the battery is under the left hand seat taking up legroom.

 

[GettinBetter]

.. I was looking for a 105hp twin air but unfortunately they are like rocking horse doodoo....

Yep, I was having thoughts of upgrading from 85 to 105 but when looking found out just that, a decent one with low'ish mileage is unobtanium, and I don't want a vehicle with more than 2 cylinders.

 

[jrkitching]

As some of you may know, I've been test driving quite a few new small cars recently to find a replacement for my 15yr old 1.2 Panda.

I've not found a single 3 pot car that I'd want to own, and that's living somewhere that's reasonably flat! The latest generation of small petrol cars are gutless by design, with few redeeming features. I'd take a 60HP 169 over them any day, and likely use less fuel into the bargain, but you can't buy new cars like this any more. It's tempting to keep it, but the reality is that it's just plain worn out.

I'm coming around to the conclusion that the only way to get a new/newish small car that's enjoyable to drive is to go electric.

Go test drive the Renault 5; it's performance up to the legal speed limit might just surprise you.

 

[varesecrazy]

As some of you may know, I've been test driving quite a few new small cars recently to find a replacement for my 15yr old 1.2 Panda.

I've not found a single 3 pot car that I'd want to own, and that's living somewhere that's reasonably flat! The latest generation of small petrol cars are gutless by design, with few redeeming features. I'd take a 60HP 169 over them any day, and likely use less fuel into the bargain, but you can't buy new cars like this any more. It's tempting to keep it, but the reality is that it's just plain worn out.

I'm coming around to the conclusion that the only way to get a new/newish small car that's enjoyable to drive is to go electric.

Go test drive the Renault 5; it's performance up to the legal speed limit might just surprise you.

I can't do Electric..
Infrastructure not supportive for my needs

Would be interested when I retire though.

 

[ZaphodB]

I'm coming around to the conclusion that the only way to get a new/newish small car that's enjoyable to drive is to go electric.

Which is specifically why I grabbed a 22 plate 595

Maybe by the time I've worn that out , the UK end/ban of ICE production will have been pushed/extended further down the road, or the idea cancelled completely

All manufacturers seem to be dropping anything (ICE) decent in preference to an electric version or a hybrid.
Even the Abarth ICE was cancelled late last year.

As for that Renault, depending on the 'engine/battery' spec - they do two, real life range is between 130 and 180
On longer trips I don't want to be constantly looking for 'fuel' stops , I don't want to be waiting at 'fuel' stops drinking coffee whilst waiting for a charge point to become available, and then drink more coffee/doss about whilst the actual thing charges up .... personally ...no, no and thrice NO

 

[GettinBetter]

... small car...

I know you mentioned the Renault, but the Fiat electric is not really a small car, a guy at work bought an electric shortly after I got mine (0.9 85hp twinair) when they are parked next to each other in the car park his is noticeably bigger (higher/wider/longer) than mine. It's more like the size of a mini.

 

[varesecrazy]

I need 150 DAILY, often 250.. ,
That's just not possible in a small EV

AND something like a Tesla wouldn't work due to parking practicalities

So a Panda/ 500 is going to be the car for the next few years

 

[jrkitching]

Infrastructure not supportive for my needs

Yes, I would only suggest going electric if you have the facility to install a charger on your own property and would only need to use public charging on very isolated occasions. I very rarely go more than 50 miles from home each day and am back every evening. Many days now, the car does less than ten miles.

If you have a company car, and particularly if the company can provide free or subsidised charging at work, the economics may be different than a private purchase.

If all you have is street parking, it probably won't work for you.

But I was astounded at both the performance, and the way that performance is delivered.

It would also be a good choice for anyone wanting a small automatic.

 

[ZaphodB]

Yes, I would only suggest going electric if you have the facility to install a charger on your own property and would only need to use public charging on very isolated occasions. I very rarely go more than 50 miles from home each day and am back every evening. Many days now, the car does less than ten miles.

If you have a company car, and particularly if the company can provide free or subsidised charging at work, the economics may be different than a private purchase.

If all you have is street parking, it probably won't work for you.

But I was astounded at both the performance, and the way that performance is delivered.

It would also be a good choice for anyone wanting a small automatic.

but, but .... the range


(That's the overwhelming aspect for me)

 

[GettinBetter]

but, but .... the range

.. and, and the spontaneous combustion

 

[ZaphodB]

.. and, and the spontaneous combustion

Yeah that too !!

Porsche for instance recently told owners of the Taycan (mk1) , to try and not charge it over 80% ..... and errrr don't park it near a building that you're fond of until looked at (several times)

 

[GettinBetter]

If you search, you can find an alarming amount of documentation regarding such issues. TBH, it wouldn't surprise me if the manufacturers are fully aware, but negativity will get in the way of sales. As we all know manufacturers are untouchable when it comes to liability.