MASSIVE POST WARNING! 
:devil:
So only a year late, time for an epic update, and closure unfortunatly.
Mid July last year my Bravo decided to leave me stranded at work one evening, having been driving faultlessly prior and with no symptoms of any problems arising. The car would start but not go into gear when running (was fine when switched off and flicking through the different gears). Called the RAC out and their computer wouldn't speak to the dualogic system (I didn't expect it to tbh, they're expensive units they use, but are jack of all cars and masters of none when it comes to any ECU other then engine). So we get recovered the 25 miles home.
Decided to have a pop about, checked the obvious, electrical connections, clutch fluid level (all 35/45ml of it), even a full charge of the battery and checking of the earthing straps etc. Plugged MES in and the fault codes were nice and none specific (they look fairly specific, but read on..)
- P2905 - Gearbox sub-system
- P2908 - Clutch sub-system
So I eventually decide that its out of even my capabilities, I know how a Selespeed system works, especially on the simpler systems fitted to the smaller Fiats (Panda / 500 / GP) but the Bravo's is a tad more complex, and in addition to this I just didn't have the time (sort of why this has taken almost 13 months to write). Off to an independent specialist it goes on the back of a mates Range Rover.
The independent had a good look, and unfortunately were not certain on the issue. They had ideas, but were honest (for which I respect them, and still use them) and held their hands up saying they could do X Y and Z but we'd might be stabbing in the dark and no better off, even though they had a fairly good inclination. So their recommendation, was off to main dealer. Who better to let loose on your Fiat than the experts at the Franchised main dealer that is Desira Fiat Norwich….. and you thought I'd had fun to date, oh its only just beginning. Are you sitting comfortably??
So, 8th August 2013 I collect the Bravo, and tow it around to the Fiat dealership, with sisters Stilo, the car the Bravo replaced, the car that to date has had no major failures, how I miss that car and in hindsight selling it to my sister and buying the Bravo was a mistake.
After having had the car for a week, having checked the wiring and everything I had, and referring it to Fiat Tech Support, it was diagnosed that the clutch was at fault. Not happy with this I asked how a clutch can fail when parked. They normally either wear and slip, or fail catastrophically when in use with a bang as they break up, or something along those lines. One of the fault codes is clutch sub system…what is this? and what is a gearbox sub system?
After referring this back to Fiat Tech Support, the answer was along the line of we don't know, but we want to take your gearbox out - that'll be £400 for the honour please, on top of the £95 to date for our investigative work, and we
might then be able to see what the fault is.
So with no other option I agree to the gearbox being removed.
I then get this bad boy as a courtesy car - 1.2 500 Pop, great fun as a car, but no AC - really…...
Had to wait until 22nd August for them to be able to fit the car into their workshop, and it then took until 29th August for this work to be completed
After making another phone call, Desira Norwich don't seem to know how to pick up and phone and dial out it seemed, I contact them and they've discovered that the clutch slave cylinder was leaking and that this was the cause. So I agree to having this along with the clutch (half worn, £70 for a new clutch, small change in the grand scheme of things, and no additional labour while everything was out) changed. Total quote of entire job £704.03 completed.
Happy days I think, main dealer clutch and slave change for £700 wasn't actually that bad in my opinion, luckily the fairly cheap parts cost offset the labour imo.
13th September 2013, I pick up the phone and call Desira Fiat Norwich to find out whats happening, they're still reassembling, will call me in a day or two once completed.
17th September 2013, yet again I pick up the phone and call Desira Fiat Norwich to find out whats happening. Apparently they were just about to call me as I called
So sir, we've put it all back together, and at £704.03 later and we're no further forward (except for having an outstanding bill for £700 for you). But the good news is, we've now discovered what the fault is. Well I'll be damned, over a month in duration and £700 later and they've finally diagnosed the issue. Turns out all along to have been the Clutch Master Cylinder (The clutch sub system maybe
).
Due to their failings to date though, the good people at Desira said that to replace this part they won't charge me any further labour (not a biggie, as its mounted on the top of the gearbox and actually only takes about 45minutes to change, to think if they'd diagnosed it properly in the first place I'd be about £500 better off and have a working Bravo). The bad news however, said Clutch Master Cylinder (because its a dualogic and we can, and fell like it) is £713 for that part alone
FML thats a fast way to double a bill from £700 to £1400!
So I unwillingly, with no other choice, agree to this being replaced. If only they’d diagnosed this issue properly in the first place, and started with the basics, I’d have been about £600 better off, as the gearbox would needn’t have been removed and the clutch and slave cylinder replaced, as these weren’t at fault in my opinion :bang:
7 weeks later on 28th September 2013, I collect my Bravo and open my wallet for Desira to empty, but its ok, the nightmare is over….surely?
As I'm a rather busy person I immediately head down to London as had a weekend away planned. 120 miles later I get there with the car seemingly running as good as ever.
Turn up at a friends, and have it pointed out that the DRL's on the front of the car were none operational, strange as they were when the car was dropped off at Desira Norwich on 8th August (as you can see in the pic of it behind the Stilo). So we open the bonnet to investigate and the full horror becomes apparent
To date I've always seen people posting about dealer failings on the internet, and ofter wonder how exaggerated they are. So, it would appear that they're not always exaggerated, and that Franchised Main dealers - especially Desira Norwich by the looks of what we had in front of us, employ people who really couldn't give a flying toss
1. Coolant Level was sitting on Minimum – It went into Desira on the Maximum marker.
2. Various missing bolts from the area of the engine bay that had been worked in - including dipstick retaining bolt, so the tube was thrashing about everywhere when the engine was running, good it didn't completely come away at the sump and loose all of my engine oil on the 120 mile drive.
3. In replacing the battery within the battery tray wiring had been trapped and crushed under it.
4. All of the retaining clips for the engine bay fuse box cover had been snapped off / lost. No attempt to rectify this, the cover was placed back on the fuse box, possibly in the hope this wouldn’t be noticed?
So, straight on the phone to Desira, only the poor receptionist on the desk as they'd all gone home for the weekend, and I advise of these issues. Her comment of "Can you call back Monday for us to book it in" nearly sent me over the edge. My response, understandably as I'm sure you can imagine, was something along the line of "No, the car will being being dropped off first thing Monday morning, and will be rectified. After having had a car for over 7 weeks the least you can do it put it back together properly and with some care".
So I continue with my weekend, Only for the gearbox to fail on 2 separate occasions on the day of collection to select reverse. Then on the evening the Bravo was collected, a horrendous rumbling noise came from the engine bay upon over run up to and around a roundabout. This could be both heard and felt through the car by my passenger and myself and was even caught on camera.
The car is given back to Desira Norwich the following Monday. Get it back 4 days later, with the issues apparently resolved. They couldn’t find what caused the rumbling noise, and there wasn’t a fault code stored for the car failing to select reverse on the 2 occasions. After having the car back, it would still fail to select reverse, as and when it wanted to, caught on camera a number of times (half a dozen of which are posted below).
So with this in mind, back to Desira Fiat Norwich it goes on 27th November 2013. The dealer techs invite me into the workshop to see them playing with the car on their ‘Examiner’ diagnostics system, 30 minutes pass of me witnessing their spooty apprentices shuffling cars about like go karts, as the tech and workshop manager play with examiner scratching their heads. “Well sir there are still no codes stored from when it hasn’t selected reverse”. Que the countless videos on my phone of it occouring, which are watched by the workshop manager with interest. “So you see”, I say, “I’m not imagining it, and if your computer isn’t giving you a fault code it isn’t my problem, this issue is occurring, and has only started doing so since you’ve had your hands on the car, and taken the gearbox out”. So its decided that I should keep my car while the dealership gets in contact with Fiat Tech Support again. I’m assured by the Service Manager that “We will deffinatly get to the bottom of this, and will be in touch when we have a response from Fiat Tech Support”. Roll on another few weeks or so, the cars failed to select reverse on a further countless number of occasions, and I decide enough is enough.
No contact from Desira Fiat Norwich, except a spam advertising email (dispite requesting not to be put onto any of their marketing lists). So I respond, asking the Service Manager if Fiat Tech Support have got back to them. Yes was the answer, and their response is to monitor it and see if it keeps occurring, and if its does they’d have to keep the vehicle in, for what could be an indefinite period of time, to see if they could get the issue to reoccur for them. Not sure why, as its not storing any fault codes after all, so I'm not sure how them having it happen to them would be any better / different to me showing them my countless videos of the fault occouring, as I’d done on the previous visit. So enough really is enough now, and I get legal advise. Their advise first of all is to contact MotorCodes, the industry body who let garages that meet their (supposedly) high standards or customer service, and customer protection, plaster their name on all of their paperwork, and have leaflets next to the coffee machine in the service waiting area stating that this garage is approved by MotorCodes, and as such have to do X Y and Z to comply with their codes of conduct.
Well, as you’ll find out in a minute, this means very little and is worth less than the glossy paper its printed on! After writing to MotorCodes, they respond and I’m advised that they’ll look into my issues by opening an investigation with Fiat UK, and Desira Fiat Norwich. My issues being the time period taken to repair the vehicle in the first place, the fact they incorrectly diagnosed the fault resulting in a bill which doubled, when in hindsight it needn’t have if the diagnostics were completed correctly in the first place, the inability to put my car back together properly, and the fact that the car now fails to select reverse when it decides to. All of which, either together as a catalogue of errors, or on their own, appear to breach several of the MotorCodes rules of conduct. First comes the outcome from the investigation with Fiat UK, confirming that customer care had been involved when I contact them regarding my concerns with Desira Fiat Norwich, when they seemed to be taking their time at repairing what was a relatively serious failure on a car which wasn’t yet 5 years old at the time, far from fit for purpose really.
Fiat UK basically washed their hands of the issues, saying that everything raised in the letter I’d sent to MotorCodes was between Desira Fiat Norwich, myself and MotorCodes. A week later, and I get a letter direct from Desira Head Office. Incorrectly named, seems my surname had changed somewhere along the way – you can tell its going to be good when their dealer customer service has been crap to date, and HQ can’t even get my name correct. The letter turns out to be 4 wasted pieces of paper, confirming what had happened to date IE the issues which have occoured and how they’ve been resolved. They seemed to like advising that all the issues have been fixed ‘Free Of Charge’ when the vehicle was returned to them. Each fault and issue they caused was fixed FOC. Funny that, as after all I’d paid for them to do the job properly in the first place, so it wasn’t really fixed FOC, it hasn’t done me a favour having to return the car on more than one occasion, they’ve basically been found out and had to do their job properly
The cracker though was in the last paragraph or two, regarding the reoccurring failure to select reverse. The long and short of HQ’s response to this was “Upon being inspected the vehicle cannot be made to repeat this fault, and no fault codes have been stored by the car. As there is no fault code, there is no fault.”.
Unbelievable, so the video evidence of this fault occurring countless times it appears counts for nothing when it comes to proving a fault is present. A few days later, another letter arrives from MotorCodes, to confirm that they’ve finished their investigation, and from what they can see the dealer has done nothing wrong – so basically their codes of conduct and ethics are worth very little, and you’ve just as much luck using a back street garage which isn’t accredited by MotorCodes, as those that are accredited don’t seem to ever be accountable for their actions. By this point, the car is now deciding to do the same occasionally when selecting 1st gear after having just been in reverse, although slightly easier to get around as it would allow you to select 2nd gear and move off forward. Just for reference, we’re into March 2014 by now. So, next line of action is going down the legal route. I get in contact with legal representation who agree based upon the evidence I’ve provide them (all the paper work etc, always keep a paper audit trail) that they’ll take on my case, and providing I can get an engineers report to confirm this on going fault where the vehicle randomly fails to select reverse, then it looks like we’d have a good case against Desira Fiat Norwich under the Service / sale of goods Act.
This is where the fun begins again. This required report by the likes of RAC etc will cost around £200. If you get a report from the RAC, they refuse to stand by them in court (plenty about this available with a Google search) making it worthless. In addition to this, the engineer undertaking required report would need to see the fault present at the time of vehicle inspection (understandable, don’t get me wrong), but how the hell do I manage to get the car to randomly do this when I haven’t managed it at the Fiat Dealership :bang: So, to splash another £200 on top of the already heavy repair bill, and probably get no further, or do what Desira Fiat Norwich have wanted from the offset, and give up? Well after weighing up the odds of probability I decided on the latter, and called it a day. The odds of the car replicating its hissy fit and not selecting reverse when being inspected by a qualified engineer were slim, and I’ve already spent enough on the car, for it to be working most of the time
A few months pass, and all seems good, although my love of the car never had been quite the same since, despite being a great and pleasurable drive when it worked properly. The car was showing its true spirit though, the sunroof had decided to throw a wobbly after it started to refuse to close properly – seems I didn’t lube the runners in time, and caused more harm than good, due to a slight oversight, when lubing the runners after having removed them and cleared them of all their grim and crud :doh:
Then, on a run back from London towards the end of June 2014, the car smacked its last nail into the coffin. On the A11, I noticed a slight whining noise. At first I thought it was a turbo issue, loose pipe or something, as it seemed to sound like an induction sound, linked to vehicle speed. Through lack of time I left it for a day or two, and noticed it only seemed to happen when the car was warm, and only in 5th / 6th gear. It’s the latter that really started to send alarm bells blazing. Having looked into it more, this was key tell tail signs of M32 gearbox bearing failure, something I’d assume wouldn’t happen to me, as through my own ignorance, I assumed that as it’s a Dualogic, it’ll most probably not have a M32 gearbox fitted to it, alas upon looking into it, it would indeed seem to be the M32 gearbox
So, that’ll be another £700+ then….. I think not. Never have I decided to cut my losses with a car, but with the loss of love, and the feeling that the botched gearbox repair last summer was another ticking time bomb in itself until the failing to select reverse got worse and resulted in the system failing completely, the time had come.
So the decision was made, very quickly as its normally only a matter of time until the gearbox bearing fails completely and takes the box out with it, the car would be going and be replaced, but with what was the question. The dilemma was finding another automatic, which matched or exceeded the Bravo’s Diesel spec (or something which met or exceeded its economy) with HID’s, parking sensors, tinted windows etc, which was going to be reliable and have more than a 3 year / 60k mile warranty, and ideally hold its value very well. It would have so easily been a top spec Kia C’eed, but they don’t do an auto Diesel, only a Petrol, which wasn’t acceptable doing 18k-20k miles a year currently. After having a good look about, and having always liked them for their toys and being one big gadget, it was decided, a Prius….. A Prius Plug-in – to be continued in the PiP’s (Plug-in Pruis) Members Motor thread shortly (well probably in about 6 months time with the way I seem to get around to doing MM threads
