Medical/Hospital Negligence

[kayl0rz]

im not starting this tread so we can 250 posts saying 'we're turning into america wanting to sue everyone and get comp for everything' so if thats what you're gonna post after reading what i write... dont.

ok, so a close friend of mine recently got pregnant, she was happy, as was the father (even tho they arent together. long story, cant live with/cant live without kinda thing() and they go for the first scan, on a thursday, only to find out the baby has no heartbeat so shes told it has to be removed... the following monday.

after alot of bumbling about, not really knowing whats going on and just being confused for a whole day, she finally has the op and all is well. off home she goes.

early hours of thursday morning she has quite heavy bleeding and ends up back in hospital. after another day of not really knowing whats going on shes told they didnt do the op properly the first time round, and they need to do it again!!!! they say they can do it that evening (thursday night) but then they dont and she ends up having to stay in over night, and having the op the day after (friday)

so! i cant get my head around how it could have been fluffed up the first time round, unless they werent paying attention to what they were doing and what if she hadnt of started bleeding? what could have happened if this went undetected for longer? doesnt bare thinking about really..

so, shes having to have more time off work and more emotional stress

do you think she has grounds to be compensated (money shes lost from not being able to goto work) at all? or do you think its an easy mistake to make.

 

[dave]

should be compensated, people are strange in UK they want all sorts of free stuff if a car dealer messes up. but wont sue when its some thing more important like their own body

 

[nebrog23]

Difficult to say because we don't know the full details of what was not done right the first time and what they had to do the second time. Definitely worth asking for a full explanation. You can use the patient advise liaison (PALS) team at the hospital to help you with the complaint/explanation. You can also request to see the patients notes therefore might have a better idea if you can claim. It's difficult to call and you need to weigh up if it is worth the emotional ride (I know this shouldn't be the case if they are in the wrong but sometimes it's not worth it). I'm not defending the hospital but medicine isn't an exact science. On the face of it, it looks like another example of the hospital been overworked and very poor communication between your friend and the doctors/nurses as to what was actually going on.

 

[Garree001]

Sorry to hear about your friend

They actually admitted to being negligent?? I would be gob smacked if they did...

However, any operation carries with it a degree of risk. There is always a chance of complications, whatever the procedure. Is it not that the issues can be attributed to this?

I do feel there's a place for taking people/companies to court. If it never happened, they'd never learn. If your friend was considering suing, she'd better have some cast iron proof that they were sloppy and that she has been affected by their actions - any compensation would be based on her level of suffering as a result of them.

Hope your friend, and what seems like her f*** buddy (joking of course ) are OK.

 

[angel]

sorry to hear that, if she needs someone to speak to who's been through it please give her my number.

it's what termed as a missed abortion and they usually wait a few days before performing a d&c to see if you miscarry before surgical intervention or being given drugs to make you miscarry.

i would imagine that as they dont perform a scan afterwards, its presumed all has been cleared, unless you start to bleed.

 

[ChrisUK]

Sounds like medical negligence to me. Get her to seek legal advice once she's in good health again obviously.

If they did admit it don't forget to make notes and get names of staff etc as it will be required in court.

Theres a lass at work suing the NHS for malpractice when her grandma died in their care from a wrongly administered dose of some drug I can't even remember the name off.

 

[kayl0rz]

Difficult to say because we don't know the full details of what was not done right the first time and what they had to do the second time. Definitely worth asking for a full explanation. You can use the patient advise liaison (PALS) team at the hospital to help you with the complaint/explanation. You can also request to see the patients notes therefore might have a better idea if you can claim. It's difficult to call and you need to weigh up if it is worth the emotional ride (I know this shouldn't be the case if they are in the wrong but sometimes it's not worth it). I'm not defending the hospital but medicine isn't an exact science. On the face of it, it looks like another example of the hospital been overworked and very poor communication between your friend and the doctors/nurses as to what was actually going on.

its horrible to even think about let alone say it.... but they didnt clear the womb completely. some... stuff.. was left over which meant they had to go again to finish the job off properly.

god thats a horrible thought

i went through the same thing when i was 18, however mine was my choice, and that was hard enough to go through, so i cant imagine what i would have been like being told it wasnt done properly and i had to go through it all again

 

[Chas Uno]

However, any operation carries with it a degree of risk. There is always a chance of complications, whatever the procedure. Is it not that the issues can be attributed to this?

:yeahthat:

All medical procedures carry risks. A person needing a procedure will be informed of these risks and then asked to sign a consent form agreeing that the procedure can go ahead. Medicine and surgical procedures are not exact sciences as someone has always pointed out, everybody is different and not everyone will get the same results.

An example is when I had my tonsils removed in 2002. A week later I had severe hemorrhaging and a secondary infection needing emergency readmission and subsequent treatment. This wasn't a fault of the hospital but was a known complication with adult tonsillectomies. I didn't for one second think of making a claim against them and besides, I'd consented for the operation to go ahead and was made aware of the potential complications.

Not all operations are successful first time despite exact protocols and standards being followed. However, to claim compensation you would need to prove negligence and/ or malpractice on behalf of the hospital. Can this be proven? Rock solid evidence is needed and as Nebrog23 suggests if your friend believes malpractice has taken place then start with the PALS service in the hospital. They're independent and will take a neutral stance whilst investigating and weighing up any evidence that comes to light.

One thing though Kaylorz, your friend was obviously going through quite an emotional and distressing time regardless of the procedure. Do you think that maybe this has escalated the situation as a result compared with a less emotional procedure that wouldn't be as distressing?

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

should be compensated, people are strange in UK they want all sorts of free stuff if a car dealer messes up. but wont sue when its some thing more important like their own body

Compleatly agree Dave.

 

[MissR]

However, any operation carries with it a degree of risk. There is always a chance of complications, whatever the procedure. Is it not that the issues can be attributed to this?

Medicine isn't an exact science, and whilst it must be horrible to have to go through something like your friend has I don't think she would have much of a case. I would expect them to at least offer her counseling or some emotional support though.

should be compensated, people are strange in UK they want all sorts of free stuff if a car dealer messes up. but wont sue when its some thing more important like their own body

The fact that you've compared a human to a car just shows how some people see everything in black and white. Some things are messed up by people being incompetent (such as saying anything to get a car sale) and some things just aren't easily solved. I pity any doctor you ever have to see.

 

[jnoiles]

It's a terrible thing to live through and every sympathy to your friend. But she underwent surgery. It's not changing a tyre. It's invasive and risky. Doctors and surgeons study long and hard to gain the expertise to perform these procedures but no two are the same and there is no guarantee of anything whenever you go under.

Spare a thought for the medical staff. Imagine telling someone their baby is dead. Then telling them you have to remove it. Then explaining that it has gone wrong and you have to do it again. No one is perfect and no amount of legal ugliness will fix that. If anything a court case will make it harder for the hospital to make the experience bearable for the next person in this situation.

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

The fact that you've compared a human to a car just shows how some people see everything in black and white. Some things are messed up by people being incompetent (such as saying anything to get a car sale) and some things just aren't easily solved. I pity any doctor you ever have to see.

I don't quite think your being fair there. What Dave has said, so I perseve it, is in relation to neglect etc.

I mean you don't just 'leave bits' inside someone do you :yuck:

 

[jip0]

well last night i found out my brother got hit by a bus the impact mad him fly down the road abit and then the bus driver continued and run over his leg

he got taken to hospital ovb but because it was a saturday night in a town full of clubs and bars they barley treated him thinking ti was another drunken accident

they done an x ray on his ankle not his whole leg put some bandages on the cuts and grazes and sent him home, didnt even give him a pair of crutches

by some miricle he came out of it with barley any injuries no idea how worst hes got is a sprained ankle didnt even break

thing that annoys me is he didnt even have a drink had an accident and the hospital couldnt care less

i know it sounds unbelivable but thats what happend

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

OMG, did the bus driver stop? Exchange details?

 

[Chas Uno]

I don't quite think your being fair there. What Dave has said, so I perseve it, is in relation to neglect etc.

I mean you don't just 'leave bits' inside someone do you :yuck:

Jon, have you ever seen surgery taking place? With endoscopes? With tiny catheters and cauterizers that are used to remove human tissue? It's a very skilled and challenging procedure and it's always a balance between removing too much and not enough. Too much and you risk causing bleeding and hemorrhaging, not enough and stuff is left behind. The OP hasn't divulged enough details on what exactly happened and their terminology may be misleading. To "leave bits" inside may simply imply that a difficult procedure wasn't successful at the first attempt, which is not unusual in surgery. There is a lot to remove regarding a fetus and placenta, it's nowhere near as simple as snipping off an appendix! In this case, how can it be neglect when all procedures have been followed?

well last night i found out my brother got hit by a bus the impact mad him fly down the road abit and then the bus driver continued and run over his leg

he got taken to hospital ovb but because it was a saturday night in a town full of clubs and bars they barley treated him thinking ti was another drunken accident

they done an x ray on his ankle not his whole leg put some bandages on the cuts and grazes and sent him home, didnt even give him a pair of crutches

by some miricle he came out of it with barley any injuries no idea how worst hes got is a sprained ankle didnt even break

thing that annoys me is he didnt even have a drink had an accident and the hospital couldnt care less

i know it sounds unbelivable but thats what happend

Ever worked in A&E on a saturday night? Trying to treat an impossible number of people who are all needing assessment and treatment? Many who are drunk and abusive? It's a balancing act of prioritising between treating the most needy and those that need treatment but are relatively stable.

Your brother would've been assessed by a doctor, who by using physiotherapy techniques would have deemed that a full leg x-ray wasn't required. Your brother had a sprained ankle, and as you said that was the worst he got and his "ankle didn't even break". Why would he need a full leg x-ray? And who's going to pay for the crutches every time someone with a dodgy ankle comes in? He would need to wait a few days to see how serious the sprain is then have an outpatient appointment to be assessed by a physiotherapist. Plus he would also need training in how to use crutches, all because so many people are quick to turn round and claim when they do fall off their crutches and accuse the NHS of not explaining the risks first. That's the litigation culture affecting the delivery of care thanks to the death of common sense in many people...

Seems a number of people in this thread expect miracles to happen at a moments notice regardless of the circumstances. The human body doesn't work like that, and though the best treatment and highest standards should always be implemented the results will never be 100% because of the very varied nature and unpredictability of the human body. And spare a thought for the staff that have had a hectic night dealing with all sorts of idiots that are injured through their own drunken stupidity. They've probably been sworn at, spat at and faced physical abuse all in the line of trying to give care and treatment to people who probably don't deserve it. Add an unpredictable and impossible workload and the only miracle happening is that these staff are still able to provide care at all under these conditions.

 

[Garree001]

Medicine isn't an exact science, and whilst it must be horrible to have to go through something like your friend has I don't think she would have much of a case. I would expect them to at least offer her counseling or some emotional support though.

I quite agree - good post surgery care should be in place, but there's hardly enough in the OP to know what exactly has transpired. She may well be being offered some sort of support and it's important to stress that the father should be party to that care too.

The fact that you've compared a human to a car just shows how some people see everything in black and white. Some things are messed up by people being incompetent (such as saying anything to get a car sale) and some things just aren't easily solved. I pity any doctor you ever have to see.

That's a bit too far IMO... dave was not comparing the level of treatment with that of getting a car fixed. He was just comparing attitudes of what is, and is not, deemed acceptable in many people's eyes. He's quite right in saying that a lot of people would sooner sue a car dealership for whatever than they would their doctor when something that shouldn't have happened, did.

 

[jip0]

OMG, did the bus driver stop? Exchange details?

nope he carried on, dunno what he was thinking if he panicked or god knows what

Ever worked in A&E on a saturday night? Trying to treat an impossible number of people who are all needing assessment and treatment? Many who are drunk and abusive? It's a balancing act of prioritising between treating the most needy and those that need treatment but are relatively stable.

Your brother would've been assessed by a doctor, who by using physiotherapy techniques would have deemed that a full leg x-ray wasn't required. Your brother had a sprained ankle, and as you said that was the worst he got and his "ankle didn't even break". Why would he need a full leg x-ray? And who's going to pay for the crutches every time someone with a dodgy ankle comes in? He would need to wait a few days to see how serious the sprain is then have an outpatient appointment to be assessed by a physiotherapist. Plus he would also need training in how to use crutches, all because so many people are quick to turn round and claim when they do fall off their crutches and accuse the NHS of not explaining the risks first. That's the litigation culture affecting the delivery of care thanks to the death of common sense in many people...

Seems a number of people in this thread expect miracles to happen at a moments notice regardless of the circumstances. The human body doesn't work like that, and though the best treatment and highest standards should always be implemented the results will never be 100% because of the very varied nature and unpredictability of the human body. And spare a thought for the staff that have had a hectic night dealing with all sorts of idiots that are injured through their own drunken stupidity. They've probably been sworn at, spat at and faced physical abuse all in the line of trying to give care and treatment to people who probably don't deserve it. Add an unpredictable and impossible workload and the only miracle happening is that these staff are still able to provide care at all under these conditions.

im not saying that the NHS does a bad job and i have quite a few family members that work for the NHS my sister and her fiancee is a radiographer and my aunti is an executive or something i dont know her full title

the only bit that annnoyed me was the fact that my brother was just taken for another pissed up idiot who had landed themselves in hospital because of there own fault when he just happend to be in the wrong place at the wrong time the fact they sterotyped him as a classic squadie just becasue hes in the army and was in town when it happend therefore comeing up with the conclusion that hes completly wasted when in fact he hadnt been drinking at all

as for the full leg x ray yes i would of thought it would be needed seeing as his leg was run over and the fact that it is in now more pain the ankle, i would also thought they would have made an appointment for him to come back and have further check ups at a less busy time

sitting for 6 hours in a waiting room after he came in an ambulance after being hit by a bus i would of thought that he would be at the top of the prioritys, no check for internal bleeding or anything

im sorry if i have offended anyone i didnt mean to i just thought i would contribute to the therad becuase i had an experiance with the topic

 

[Chas Uno]

the only bit that annnoyed me was the fact that my brother was just taken for another pissed up idiot who had landed themselves in hospital because of there own fault when he just happend to be in the wrong place at the wrong time the fact they sterotyped him as a classic squadie just becasue hes in the army and was in town when it happend therefore comeing up with the conclusion that hes completly wasted when in fact he hadnt been drinking at all

And how did you come to this conclusion? What was said? Is this based on assumption?

as for the full leg x ray yes i would of thought it would be needed seeing as his leg was run over and the fact that it is in now more pain the ankle,

His leg would have been assessed for flexion, joint movement and pain at various points. If these had been assessed as ok then it wouldn't be necessary to perform a full leg x-ray, whereas his ankle was deemed to require an x-ray.

And bruising becomes more evident some time after an impact, sometimes not until the next day. If your brother is still concerned then he should go straight back to A&E and ask to be re-assessed.

i would also thought they would have made an appointment for him to come back and have further check ups at a less busy time

That's not what A&E's are for and there are rarely less busy times, certainly none that you can guarantee will be less busy. Your brother would have been either referred to his own GP or to Outpatients for any follow ups needed. He would also have been given instructions on what to do and not to do with regards to his injury, and most probably been prescribed anti-inflammatory pain killing drugs. If so, has he taken them?

sitting for 6 hours in a waiting room after he came in an ambulance after being hit by a bus i would of thought that he would be at the top of the prioritys, no check for internal bleeding or anything

If he was fully conscious, talking, coherent and not in excessive pain or bleeding profusely, no, he would not be top of the priorities compared with someone who is unconscious/ has head wounds/ is bleeding uncontrollably. You also don't know how many seriously injured people have come in behind the scenes that are requiring immediate life saving treatment. What you see in coming into the waiting area is not all that is going on in A&E. Emergency patients go straight through via emergency entrances.

im sorry if i have offended anyone i didnt mean to i just thought i would contribute to the therad becuase i had an experiance with the topic

That's fine, and likewise I'm giving you the experience of someone who works behind the scenes in health care. There's a lot more going on than Joe Public gets to see, hence things aren't as black and white as some people think/ want to believe.

I do hope your brother is ok, and as always, if he has any concerns then go back to A&E or see a GP to put his mind at rest.

 

[jip0]

That's not what A&E's are for and there are rarely less busy times, certainly none that you can guarantee will be less busy. Your brother would have been either referred to his own GP or to Outpatients for any follow ups needed. He would also have been given instructions on what to do and not to do with regards to his injury, and most probably been prescribed anti-inflammatory pain killing drugs. If so, has he taken them?

he got none of that no instructions and nothing prescribed

If he was fully conscious, talking, coherent and not in excessive pain or bleeding profusely, no, he would not be top of the priorities compared with someone who is unconscious/ has head wounds/ is bleeding uncontrollably. You also don't know how many seriously injured people have come in behind the scenes that are requiring immediate life saving treatment. What you see in coming into the waiting area is not all that is going on in A&E. Emergency patients go straight through via emergency entrances.

he was in and out of conscious and in pretty bad pain but i understand that there are more important things

That's fine, and likewise I'm giving you the experience of someone who works behind the scenes in health care. There's a lot more going on than Joe Public gets to see, hence things aren't as black and white as some people think/ want to believe.

I do hope your brother is ok, and as always, if he has any concerns then go back to A&E or see a GP to put his mind at rest.

thanks for all the information i guess it is quite easy just to make assumptions its just worrying that he got left with no information prescriptions or nothing just told to get on with it when he has a baby to look after and his partner has to work to keep a roof over their heads

im sure he will be fine i call him superman now anyway he shoulda died lol

 

[dave]

That's a bit too far IMO... dave was not comparing the level of treatment with that of getting a car fixed. He was just comparing attitudes of what is, and is not, deemed acceptable in many people's eyes. He's quite right in saying that a lot of people would sooner sue a car dealership for whatever than they would their doctor when something that shouldn't have happened, did.

that's right, an if people never take action when they think a doctor has got it wrong we will never separate the good ones from the bad. if a court decides they did nothing wrong then thats fine, but if people are put off taking action just because of someone's social status its bad