OP
OP
So no way to tell it its not
Got ABS then?
Technical LUMPY IDLE Panda 1.2 2004
- Thread starter mikehopper
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Technical LUMPY IDLE Panda 1.2 2004
Got ABS then?
there's several ways to check
follow the pipes from the brake master, Do they go into an ABS pump. From memory its behind the battery
on top of the deferential housing is the speed sensor connected. Needed for none ABS
or under the car is there a ABS wire going to the hub
UK its very rare not to have ABS as even the 1.1 active 03/04 it was a cost extra
and it has been mandatory on all factory cars since sometime in 2004
unless its an import then, yes it should have ABS
multiecuscan is Good at testing abs sensors. It reads the speed of each wheel. You can spin a wheel and see the speed. Swap a sensor and retest. Also shows dead zones on the magnetic rotors
I have found it useful for this in the past, although I have mainly used WOW and Delphi now so haven't confirm on the panda
I have found it useful for this in the past, although I have mainly used WOW and Delphi now so haven't confirm on the panda
ABS became a madatory fitment in 2004. I think it was April or May, but most built before that would have had it to avoid problems with stock vehicles. Only very early cars form 2003 or early 2004 did not have ABS.
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If ABS is playing up we need a new thread. 
had a quick check. The ABS pump is low down behind the battery tray on my RHD car
OP
OP
Yes Ive found it now.
Got a new sensor on order.... is it a 5mm Allen to remove it?
Yes it is.
gr J
gr J
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The old sensor will be stuck into the hub. Use pipe pliers to (carefully) twist it back & forth then it should come out easily enough. Before you fit the new one, smear the sensor hole in the hub and the sensor with a GOOD dense anti seize paste. This keeps the weather out because you might be the one taking it out next time.
PS Grease might be enough but the anti seize makes more sense to me.
PS Grease might be enough but the anti seize makes more sense to me.
There are stories that copper based anti-seize can interfere with ABS sensors. Not sure how or why, but the ceramic anti-seize, available in small tubes form Euro Car Parts is supposed to be the alternative.
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Fair point,There are stories that copper based anti-seize can interfere with ABS sensors. Not sure how or why, but the ceramic anti-seize, available in small tubes form Euro Car Parts is supposed to be the alternative.
Can be available in blue, yellow or red tubes, according to brand name, but is all the same from the same company. Often much cheaper if on the shelf in the shop.Pagid CeraTec Brake Lube 75ml (GREASE) | Euro Car Parts
Pagid CeraTec Brake Lube 75ml (GREASE) at the lowest UK prices from Euro Car Parts UK’s No.1 for Car Accessories, Car Styling & Car Care. Buy today Online, In store or by Phone + Branches Nationwide – Next Day UK Free Delivery.
even though copper isnt magnetic it interacts with magnetic fields, it has effected sensors in the past. It has been known to also speed up corrosion. (cheaper brands)
look on YouTube for someone dropping a neodymium magnet down a copper pipe. It doesn't do what you would expect
personally I just use High melting axle grease on everything. I sometimes use it to plug up it ends of holes that have been drilled through as its very cheap. Never had a bolt seize, I feel anti seize is just a way to part people from there money, but thats a discussion for another thread, each to make up their own mind.
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The intention is to protect the iron hub from corroding and seizing the sensor into its hole. Mine have all been fine with Action Can CS-90 but red grease might make more sense.
A neodymium magnet drops slowly down a copper pipe because the relative movement creates electrical eddy currents in the copper which resist the fall of the magnet. Non moving copper grains in a grease wont have any electrical effect.
A neodymium magnet drops slowly down a copper pipe because the relative movement creates electrical eddy currents in the copper which resist the fall of the magnet. Non moving copper grains in a grease wont have any electrical effect.
sorry if it sounds like a get at Dave which is not my intention,
take a look on the 911 forms there's shed loads some photos of accelerated corrosion due to copper anti seize.
take a look on boat forums
GM have posted a bulletin about corrosion on there trucks lifting the abs causing them not to work, they specify mineral grease for some reason
don't take my word for it became enough of a problem for manufacture to specify that copper grease shouldn't be used for this application and some such as Mitsubishi void warranties if it has been used
personally I don't own any, its known to cause stainless steel to crack., transfer heat and damage near by components, corrode aluminium if the solvent gets washed out, I can find loads of evidence of it causing problems, I can not find any as to why it should be used in this application. Great on hot dry steel.
here is what a supplier says, I could post a link but this is just a straight copy and past
Anti seize compounds such as copper grease are an anti-seize compound and not a lubricant. Copper grease is also conductive and contains solid particles. Should it contaminate the ABS sensors it could interfere with the ABS signals. Copper grease is not suitable for the brake environment as a galvanic reaction is likely to occur. Galvanic corrosion is caused due to 2 dissimilar metals reacting with each other. All metals have galvanic qualities. This is a measure of a metal’s resistance to corrosion when in contact with another metal. A greater relative diff erence in galvanic quality between the two metals in contact indicates a greater corrosion potential. Galvanic corrosion (also called bimetallic corrosion) is an electrochemical process in which one metal corrodes preferentially to another when both metals are in electrical contact, in the presence of an electrolyte. Since copper has one of the highest galvanic numbers or nobility of the active metals, it will not be harmed by contact with any of them. It will, however, cause corrosion of the other metals if in direct contact. Thus preventing the pad from moving freely in the caliper/ carrier. The electrolyte may be rain water or moisture from the air containing enough acid to cause it to act as an electrolyte. This results in the deterioration of the metal with the lower galvanic number. Contact in a saline environment or salty water will accelerate corrosion.
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Fair comment about the ABS sensors getting messed up. Looks like red grease or maybe silicone grease is the way to go. To be fair my ABS sensors have always worked fine. hey and the screws have never seized after treatment but I'm careful to not slather the stuff about.
Galvanic corrosion is a huge issue, however I've found the Action Can CS-90 is extremely effective at stopping stainless to aluminium corrosion. I've had motorbikes all my life and seized fasteners due corroded alloy are a PITA.
The 2008 BMW had numerous stainless bolts into aluminium and corrosion was a nightmare. That said, the plated steel bolts were little better and steel is galvanically close to Al. CS-90 was only stuff that stopped stainless bolts into aluminium from seizing up. I tried red grease and ACF-50. Might as well have assembled them dry. I did not use silicone grease as it causes bolts to shake loose. It's too slippery.
CS-90 was also used on Japanese bikes especially exhausts. Yamaha use a socket nut on the header bolts. The open threads just soak up corrosion, then the stud fractures next time you change the oil (yes exhaust comes off to do basic service jobs). I replaced the silly socket nuts with stainless dome nuts but they tend to shake loose. Brass nuts and spring washers did the job though looked rubbish. (Brass is copper and zinc by the way).
Last of all whatever preparation you use the paste has to go along the whole length of the fastener NOT just the threads. Small areas of bare metal get a concentrated galvanic effect.
I've not been able to find out how this stuff works. CS-90 contains copper and carbon. Alumium is close to being the most anodic. Stainless steel, ferrous metals and aluminium are more cathodic but are fairly close on the galvanic scale. Carbon is by far the most cathodic and copper is well up the scale. My suspicion is that putting them between steels and aluminium effectively cancels out the Ni/Fe - Al battery. I'd love to know what really goes on.
Galvanic corrosion is a huge issue, however I've found the Action Can CS-90 is extremely effective at stopping stainless to aluminium corrosion. I've had motorbikes all my life and seized fasteners due corroded alloy are a PITA.
The 2008 BMW had numerous stainless bolts into aluminium and corrosion was a nightmare. That said, the plated steel bolts were little better and steel is galvanically close to Al. CS-90 was only stuff that stopped stainless bolts into aluminium from seizing up. I tried red grease and ACF-50. Might as well have assembled them dry. I did not use silicone grease as it causes bolts to shake loose. It's too slippery.
CS-90 was also used on Japanese bikes especially exhausts. Yamaha use a socket nut on the header bolts. The open threads just soak up corrosion, then the stud fractures next time you change the oil (yes exhaust comes off to do basic service jobs). I replaced the silly socket nuts with stainless dome nuts but they tend to shake loose. Brass nuts and spring washers did the job though looked rubbish. (Brass is copper and zinc by the way).
Last of all whatever preparation you use the paste has to go along the whole length of the fastener NOT just the threads. Small areas of bare metal get a concentrated galvanic effect.
I've not been able to find out how this stuff works. CS-90 contains copper and carbon. Alumium is close to being the most anodic. Stainless steel, ferrous metals and aluminium are more cathodic but are fairly close on the galvanic scale. Carbon is by far the most cathodic and copper is well up the scale. My suspicion is that putting them between steels and aluminium effectively cancels out the Ni/Fe - Al battery. I'd love to know what really goes on.
road bikes are different
higher up generally not splashing through water
the location on cars means they spend most winters splashing through puddles and being sprayed with salt water
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My bikes have always been used all year around. Corrosion is a far bigger issue on bikes because they are built for looks before the trials of life are thought about. It only takes a tiny amount of salt to make fresh water extremely corrosive.
copper grease / anti seize is just the wrong product in harsh environments, doubly so near the abs just because plenty of people get away with it doesn't make it advisable
loads of people don't. Including a screw on a throttle body seizing solid within a week, here's one of many examples
not something I would have thought of. but I will learn from others who unfortunately found out the hard way
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