Has anyone fitted a 1.4 8v punto engine into a panda 169 4x4 2006.
1.4 has variable cam timing is this worth trying to keep working.
1.4 has variable cam timing is this worth trying to keep working.
Technical 1.4 8v into panda 1.2 4x4
- Thread starter Johnspanda
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Technical 1.4 8v into panda 1.2 4x4
All the bits have to talk to each other
It's easier to put a engine out of the 100hp
Then swap the wiring, ECU, dash, body computer, keys locks
And it will work
There was a MOT failure on here for corrosion recently
Use an engine that it wasn't originally fitted your going to have to splice into wiring loom and get the everything talking to each other, unless you are experienced with electronic, understand network protocols and able to read circuit diagrams, and have them for both car it will probably end up as an abandoned project
it's not a trivial task, and you will be mostly on your own
It's easier to put a engine out of the 100hp
Then swap the wiring, ECU, dash, body computer, keys locks
And it will work
There was a MOT failure on here for corrosion recently
Use an engine that it wasn't originally fitted your going to have to splice into wiring loom and get the everything talking to each other, unless you are experienced with electronic, understand network protocols and able to read circuit diagrams, and have them for both car it will probably end up as an abandoned project
it's not a trivial task, and you will be mostly on your own
If your panda is a 1.2 8v then the swap will be easier, but, if your panda is a 16v, then it's going to be easier to fit a 1.4 16v, plus, it's the better engine anyway if performance is what you are after.
I just want to add, I have never done or tried the swap, my experience lies in Centos and Puntos where I have done engine swaps.
I just want to add, I have never done or tried the swap, my experience lies in Centos and Puntos where I have done engine swaps.
You ECU would be like this
New ECU. Would be like this
You can't repin the connector as the original wiring harness has no wires for the variator solenoid
The ECU and body computer has different CODE so the immoberliser will not work
Virginized ECU will probably not read the body computer information back unless you are very lucky,
And so on
switching the immobiliser off and swapping the wiring harness off would get the engine running but invalidate your insurance
The dash would not function and light up like a Christmas tree, The body computer communicates between the ECU, ABS, instrument panel everything is now on different lines
As I said in post 2 it's not a trivial task
Is it possible, probably yes
But being the first you would have to do all the development work, unless you are comfortable using electronic test equipment or you could find someone to help you
Being a 4x4 also complicates things slightly, for example the throttle body and wiring is unique to the these and the dualogic, but being the more mechanical pre 2007 system helps simplify things slightly
Using a donor 100hp has been done a few times, I believe the dash has to come out to change some wiring, I can check if you find all the bits, although not trivial it is DIY doable and known to work
New ECU. Would be like this
You can't repin the connector as the original wiring harness has no wires for the variator solenoid
The ECU and body computer has different CODE so the immoberliser will not work
Virginized ECU will probably not read the body computer information back unless you are very lucky,
And so on
switching the immobiliser off and swapping the wiring harness off would get the engine running but invalidate your insurance
The dash would not function and light up like a Christmas tree, The body computer communicates between the ECU, ABS, instrument panel everything is now on different lines
As I said in post 2 it's not a trivial task
Is it possible, probably yes
But being the first you would have to do all the development work, unless you are comfortable using electronic test equipment or you could find someone to help you
Being a 4x4 also complicates things slightly, for example the throttle body and wiring is unique to the these and the dualogic, but being the more mechanical pre 2007 system helps simplify things slightly
Using a donor 100hp has been done a few times, I believe the dash has to come out to change some wiring, I can check if you find all the bits, although not trivial it is DIY doable and known to work
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Mine is the 1.2 8v so I'm thinking do I need the variation solenoid working on the 1.4 8v?
Or could I swop the head off the 1.2 and use with the 1.4 block. Block is the same I think.
Thanks to everyone for replying, some things to think about
Nope will not work, 2mm difference in bore size, I see problems with head gasket valve pockets
Having said that it's not something I have tried personally, so can't be 100%
If you had both you could see if the oil and water galleries line up
Having said that it's not something I have tried personally, so can't be 100%
If you had both you could see if the oil and water galleries line up
I'm sure the blocks are the same, just taller or bigger bore size. So oil and water should line up 1.2 valves might be smaller so I would think it would be OK. Only way is to take off and look and measure.
You can buy a whole 1.2L replacement engine second hand off ebay for ~£150 if you really want to rescue this car.
Nothing is viable on such an old low value car. Its just scrap, sorry to say.
Nothing is viable on such an old low value car. Its just scrap, sorry to say.
The car is far from scrap as its probably one of the cars in the country after restoration last year. Nothing wrong with the engine it's got as such. I'm looking to just upgrade it bit another 20 hp would make a big difference.
I have both the 1.2L that you have - and the 1.4L that you want to upgrade to. There's 12 HP in it, I really don't know why you'd bother there's so little in it.
The 1.4 8v is supposed to be 78hp and the 1.2 is 59hp plus a bit porting on the head should help, in a light car is noticeable amount.
I can notice it, but 78HP is still real slow. 14 seconds for 0-60 when new! If you want a car with performance then the panda isn't it.
Not sure where we are going with this
Punto 1.4 8V. 2005 onwards
My 1.2 2010
Piston pockets stand out
Block looks similar has some extra holes mine has the head gasket covering parts over
Panda 1.2 8V
70.8 mm × 78.9 mm
Punto 1.4 8V
72 mm × 84 mm
Bore x stroke
Punto 1.4 8V. 2005 onwards
My 1.2 2010
Piston pockets stand out
Block looks similar has some extra holes mine has the head gasket covering parts over
Panda 1.2 8V
70.8 mm × 78.9 mm
Punto 1.4 8V
72 mm × 84 mm
Bore x stroke
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Thanks for the photos, I'll look closely at them.
If it was me and my car, I wouldn't bother with an engine swap, I would slap a turbo onto it, there is plenty of knowledge about turboing these engines in the Cinquecento/seicento section, all you would need is a decompression plate to lower the compression ratio so you don't have to swap the pistons.
The other way of lowering the CR, which worked on older generations of these 8v engines was to fit 16v pistons, so, say you have a 1.2 8v you would fit 1.2 16v pistons as they were the same size but lowered the CR to a safe level for boost. Not sure if it works the same with modern versions but it's something to look into.
The headache comes with engine management, does anyone know if the newer ECUs can be remapped to allow extra fuel and the use of a 3bar map sensor???
The other way of lowering the CR, which worked on older generations of these 8v engines was to fit 16v pistons, so, say you have a 1.2 8v you would fit 1.2 16v pistons as they were the same size but lowered the CR to a safe level for boost. Not sure if it works the same with modern versions but it's something to look into.
The headache comes with engine management, does anyone know if the newer ECUs can be remapped to allow extra fuel and the use of a 3bar map sensor???
All depends what you want to do with it, the 1.2 can be tuned
95 is fairly easy if only at the top end
All the way up to
157BHP @ 7600 RPM very expensive for a race car
But
The 1.2 4x4 engine is already different to the standard engine, different cam for lower down torque
If you want to improve its day to day and off road, without hurting the economy too much, increasing the capacity is the way to go
95 is fairly easy if only at the top end
All the way up to
157BHP @ 7600 RPM very expensive for a race car
But
The 1.2 4x4 engine is already different to the standard engine, different cam for lower down torque
If you want to improve its day to day and off road, without hurting the economy too much, increasing the capacity is the way to go
I think I saw pictures of the car itself elsewhere on this website (although I could be wrong about that). It looks great and a lot of effort has gone into it. If this is a pride and joy car then I wouldn't advise modding it without the OP being aware the engine lifespan will be reduced. Personally i'd hate to mod my favourite car and 18 months later it blows up....
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I would have thought a similar vintage Euro 4 Grande Punto 1.4 engine would have been ideal.
Thanks yes I spent a lot time sorting out everything. I'm no too bothered about the engine it anything goes wrong as there are plenty of engines around, it has improved since I started driving it. I don't think it was looked after too much before I got it. I enjoy driving it with the few mods I've done, it's much better.
