General Low oil

[u33db]

Bought my 1.2 in September last year - apparently serviced - and got round to doing this years service today.

I started with the oil...drained 1.5 litres out...

Then 2.6 litres to fill!

Something tells me they didn't service it before i bought it and its been low on oil for a while...

Car seems ok but its lucky i've just done short trips/sub 1k since last year is all i can say.

 

[varesecrazy]

What did the dipstick show..?

Before and after..

 

[2668GRIFFIN]

Quite clearly a sign of not lifting the bonnet between servicing!
You should be checking your oil a minimum of once a month if you did you would have known the oil was low
How much oil did the dip stick show before draining?....You did not even check that did you!!!!
Luigi

 

[Texas149]

Looks like you dodged a bullet there, lucky there was still 1.5 litres still in there at all.
What exactly 'tells you' that it wasn't serviced properly? ( not enough oil put in would be very easily identifyable if you lifted the bonnet!)
Modern engines can ( according to manufactures specs) consume upto 1 litre of engine oil per 1,000 miles before requiring intervention. So your approx 1,000 miles done and 1 litre of oil missing is/can be normal.
Note lots of short journeys totalling 1,000 will consume more oil than a 1,000 run, as the internal components will expand when upto temp and fit better, as lose less oil.
Note to self, need to check oil between service intervals!

 

[jimboy]

Indeed, agree with above. Not having a go here but checking your oil regularly is habit you must get into.

 

[varesecrazy]

Checking any new purchase has to be frequent.. so you know if it is dropping

After a couple of months you can revert to monthly..

Petrol forecourts are ideal.. once youve filled and paid .. its a 1 minute job

(Ive only had 1 FIAT that had a dropping level..a 1984 car with a scrapyard engine)

My modern FIATs HAVE been oiltight)

 

[varesecrazy]

Quite clearly a sign of not lifting the bonnet between servicing!

Luigi

If only that were true..

They had an Aircon problem..so lots of underbonnet time

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Bought my 1.2 in September last year - apparently serviced - and got round to doing this years service today.

I started with the oil...drained 1.5 litres out...

Then 2.6 litres to fill!

Something tells me they didn't service it before i bought it and its been low on oil for a while...

Car seems ok but its lucky i've just done short trips/sub 1k since last year is all i can say.

This thread somewhat puzzles me. Did our fellow forum member (from up in Aberdeenshire), who tells us he's just completed the first service he's done since buying the car last September, so I would guess that if he's servicing his own car then he has quite a good understanding of how cars work? really just buy this car and drive off without checking his oil level until now? Most of us, with this level of competence, regularly lift the bonnet and check Oil level, Coolant level, Brake/clutch fluid level and Screen wash bottle level, perhaps with a quick hose check for leaks etc as well. So, the question I'm asking myself is, Was he perhaps doing this but the level has dropped very quickly since his last check - or has he really not checked his levels since buying it? Which I would find strange, even given very low mileages run due to Covid etc.

Charlie's post above about an aircon problem (in another thread?) further serves to increase the mystery?

 

[u33db]

I am embarrassed to say to say i've not checked since around christmas!

(Though in that time i've done i've barely done 3/400 miles)

Its not due to poor knowledge, i've done head gaskets, cams on other cars but this car has taken a lot of work since buying it; the brakes, the suspension, the cambelt, clutch, the roof leak etc; to the point checking the oil fell down the list and tbh i'd gone off the car so didn't really care either.

Lesson learned though!

Quite shocked the level dropped by that amount though; the last car i had that would use oil was a mk1 clio 20 years on 120k+. I can honestly say no car i've had since then has dropped the oil level by any noticeable amount...odd, but it would not shock me to find the car has another issue to cause this.

 

[jrkitching]

I started with the oil...drained 1.5 litres out... Then 2.6 litres to fill!

Don't overly sweat this; if the oil level is on the minimum mark on the dipstick, you'll get somewhere between 1.6-1.7 litres out of the sump, so it was likely not far below the line. The oil filter accounts for about another 400ml; probably there's 100-200ml clinging to the sides of the container(s) you used to drain it, and all this assumes you haven't spilt any.

Difference between the dipstick marks is about 0.6l, which all adds up nicely to the 2.7-2.8l you'll generally put back in.

But as everyone else has said, do get into the habit of checking the oil regularly, and at the very minimum, each time you refuel the car. Most forecourts these days are level, covered, and well lit, so it's an ideal opportunity.

And a handy hint: a six pint plastic milk bottle makes an excellent disposable catch tray when draining the oil - just cut one side out, and (obviously) put the cap back on.

The stated oil capacity has varied a bit over the production run, most likely because the oil filter has been progressively reduced in size.

 

[u33db]

Don't overly sweat this; if the oil level is on the minimum mark on the dipstick, you'll get somewhere between 1.6-1.7 litres out of the sump, so it was likely not far below the line. The oil filter accounts for about another 400ml; probably there's 100-200ml clinging to the sides of the container(s) you used to drain it, and all this assumes you haven't spilt any.

Difference between the dipstick marks is about 0.6l, which all adds up nicely to the 2.7-2.8l you'll generally put back in.

The stated oil capacity has varied a bit over the production run, most likely because the oil filter has been progressively reduced in size.

Thanks, that reassured me i've not fried it.

The car certainly drove fine today anyway, and its got its MOT on Tuesday, so touch wood it'll go through ok after all the work

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I'm of the same opinion as JRK. You got a measurable quantity of oil out of it and the pickup is very close to the bottom of the sump so the likelyhood that any serious damage has been caused by this is minimal. If it had been serviced at time of purchase and your mileage is next to nothing then there must be a pretty obvious reason why the oil level is dropping like this. I feel sure it'll reveal itself to you if you look hard enough. Maybe the MOT inspector will notice something and pass it on to you.

Have to say though none of the ones we've owned - and they've all been FIRE 4 cylinder units - has used oil to any extent at all.

 

[jrkitching]

Have to say though none of the ones we've owned - and they've all been FIRE 4 cylinder units - has used oil to any extent at all

Perhaps half a litre in 10,000 miles is pretty typical for this engine. I've seen one or two cases where the oil filter has come slightly loose in service and they've started to weep from the oil filter seal. This is usually caused by failing to remove the seal and coating both sides of it with oil before fitting the filter. The seal then sticks before it is fully tightened and winds up like a rubber band; heat & vibration unwind it, and the connection loses its integrity. I've yet to hear of one actually coming off, thank goodness.

 

[varesecrazy]

Perhaps half a litre in 10,000 miles is pretty typical for this engine. I've seen one or two cases where the oil filter has come slightly loose in service and they've started to weep from the oil filter seal. This is usually caused by failing to remove the seal and coating both sides of it with oil before fitting the filter. The seal then sticks before it is fully tightened and winds up like a rubber band; heat & vibration unwind it, and the connection loses its integrity. I've yet to hear of one actuallly coming off, thank goodness.

The last Main dealer service I ever had.. the filter came loose the following day and spat all the oil out on a dual carriageway.. thankfully I spotted the low pressure light and shut it down

It was oil tight for the next 80k with me fitting things correctly. FIRE engines

 

[TrevC]

Good suggestion from JRK for an oil drain receptacle, as long as you don't do what I did many years ago. Cut the side out of a 5l plastic container, drained the oil into it (with the lid screwed on), carefully slid it out from under the car, then picked it up by the handle......

 

[u33db]

Just got the call from the garage...MOT passed with no advisories so thats a relief.

As for the oil level who knows, as suggested I will just check it monthly now while i'm working at home, and more frequently if it gets used for commuting but hopefully nothing untoward lurking for the future. It may have been a little low but i did the cambelt the other week and some oil came out of the camshaft sprocket bolt so maybe that explains some loss.

Next job now will be checking the valve clearance/shims as it sounds tappy on startup but goes away once warm.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Just got the call from the garage...MOT passed with no advisories so thats a relief.

As for the oil level who knows, as suggested I will just check it monthly now while i'm working at home, and more frequently if it gets used for commuting but hopefully nothing untoward lurking for the future. It may have been a little low but i did the cambelt the other week and some oil came out of the camshaft sprocket bolt so maybe that explains some loss.

Next job now will be checking the valve clearance/shims as it sounds tappy on startup but goes away once warm.

Such a relief when you get that pass isn't it?

Presumably, being a 500, you've got the VVT cam pulley like the one on my boy's 2012 Punto 1.4 8 valve. Yes a little oil spills out of the blanking plug in the centre of the pulley when you remove it to access the pulley bolt but it's such a small amount I can't see it having any noticeable effect on the dip stick level?

As many on here can testify, the 8 valve engines are prone to rattle on start up especially if they've not been run for a day or so. This is because the oil drains back from the top end and it takes just a few seconds for the supply to be resumed (pumped up from the sump). Even after a few days standing it still shouldn't take any longer than a few seconds for the pronounced rattle to stop. If it then runs quietly I wouldn't worry, they pretty much all do this. But if it rattles audibly until the engine reaches running temp or rattles all the time then you would be wise to check the clearances. As you may know, adjusting the clearances is not for the inexperienced or faint hearted and getting hold of the required shim sizes to make adjustment can sometimes be problematical. So I'd say, if it only rattles first start of the day and then for only a few seconds just leave it alone.

 

[u33db]

Hi there,

There used to be a minor rattle on startup but since doing the cambelt its got worse which is why i thought valve clearances. However you don't notice it when idling but if you blip the throttle quickly its very pronounced, and now i noticed it the other night when driving at 50 with the window open so seems its getting worse. Its not as bad when warm but if you switch it off to pop into a shop it will do it when you come out.

I have bought the valve shim tool and some feeler gauges in readiness (and as its on 76k) but i think before that i'm going try running the engine with the aux belt off to rule out the alternator or AC compressor bearings.

I also had a quick look at the exhaust manifold tonight before tea and i can see at least one stud has sheared off. I will try putting some tissue paper near it tomorrow to see if there is a leak but i suspect this is the real issue...guessing because the engine was getting jacked up and down for the cambelt its made it worse, and it certainly corresponds to a video i have seen where that was the issue.

As a vague check I also put a screwdriver to the camcover and against my ear and that sounds very smooth so i don't think its anything internal at any rate..i.e. i've done all the cambelt/timing correctly.

I will try and get a video tomorrow but its exactly like this video @ 19 or 20 seconds in;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0ysC-OHie0

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Hi there,

There used to be a minor rattle on startup but since doing the cambelt its got worse which is why i thought valve clearances. However you don't notice it when idling but if you blip the throttle quickly its very pronounced, and now i noticed it the other night when driving at 50 with the window open so seems its getting worse. Its not as bad when warm but if you switch it off to pop into a shop it will do it when you come out.

I have bought the valve shim tool and some feeler gauges in readiness (and as its on 76k) but i think before that i'm going try running the engine with the aux belt off to rule out the alternator or AC compressor bearings.

I also had a quick look at the exhaust manifold tonight before tea and i can see at least one stud has sheared off. I will try putting some tissue paper near it tomorrow to see if there is a leak but i suspect this is the real issue...guessing because the engine was getting jacked up and down for the cambelt its made it worse, and it certainly corresponds to a video i have seen where that was the issue.

As a vague check I also put a screwdriver to the camcover and against my ear and that sounds very smooth so i don't think its anything internal at any rate..i.e. i've done all the cambelt/timing correctly.

I will try and get a video tomorrow but its exactly like this video @ 19 or 20 seconds in;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0ysC-OHie0

Got worse after changing the cam belt. doesn't sound like a typical valve clearance problem scenario to me?

Louder when you blip the throttle and sounds like the video clip you included? that clip is very typical of a blow between the manifold and head. If it is, and you ignore it for a long time, the exhaust gasses will eventually cut a groove across the mating faces which will make repairs more difficult.

Another way, rather than your tissue paper, of finding noises like this is to get a piece of flexible tubing - fuel hose or washer tubing or something similar - stick one end in your ear and move the other end around near where you think the noise is coming from. A screwdriver in the ear and touching the other end to stationary casings (engine block, water pump, alternator, etc, etc) can work very well for bearings but there's nothing like a bit of tube in your ear for hearing blown gaskets and induction/exhaust leaks generally. Of course be careful (I have to say this) not to get it entangled in belts and pulleys or any other moving parts, apart from anything else, doing so usually hurts - a lot!

Good luck with it all and good luck with that broken stud - always good fun?

 

[jrkitching]

guessing because the engine was getting jacked up and down for the cambelt its made it worse

That certainly would explain an exhaust manifold leak; unless you've got the special tooling for supporting the engine when changing the cambelt, it's easy to overstress something. Supporting it with a jack under the sump works, sort of, but it isn't ideal.