Technical Lifting a Panda

[PandaVan4x4]

Hello there!

I'm thinking of lifting my Panda with one of this lift kits: https://rialzi4x4store.com/collections/kit-completi?page=1
I do cca 1000 km/year and i use as a tractor on my Olive orchard. For transporting rocks, woods, manure, itd.. I'm not sure how much to lift it. 25mm? 30mm? 40mm? i'm concerned about the consequences the lift brings to the car, if any....
I'm thinking of buying the 25mm lift just to stay od the safe side of the wear and tear. What do you think? For me every mm makes a lot of difference.

Thanks!

 

[bugsymike]

Apart from advice from spring kit seller, I would say the higher you go the sharper the angle the drive shaft CV joints etc have to operate and so are likely to fail earlier.
I know it will raise the gearing which is not ideal for off road use , but higher profile tyres can raise the vehicle a bit also.

 

[porta]

It’s great to see them being properly used, I do the same on our farm, including taking sheep to vets for emergency caesareans!
Plenty of Italians, on YouTube, have lifted to 30mm without problems on the 169 (your) version…the proper kit doesn’t just have the coilover spacers but altered drop links and mounting spacers
I was looking to lift my latest 2019 Cross, but the jury’s out on the lifting kits and euro4x4 have pulled them from sale!

 

[DaveMcT]

I would go for 25mm lift and fit some strong bash plates to the underbody. Not just engine but the whole floor and the rear subframe. Also fit a tow-bar and pull a trailer. Twin axles are best over fields though perhaps not so good at road speeds.

You could start with a working mock-up using plywood spacer rings under the road springs.

 

[koalar]

Mmm

Don't know, I don't have the 4x4

Heres some thoughts

As I jack up my 2WD panda front end. I can visably see the angle of the tyres changing (camber)


On a 2WD thats loaded the rear sits on the bump stops. Adding longer springs makes no difference if its still sitting on the bump stops.


If you have 175/65R15 and changed to 165/80R14 would give a 10mm lift

 

[DaveMcT]

On a 2WD thats loaded the rear sits on the bump stops. Adding longer springs makes no difference if its still sitting on the bump stops.

Air assisted shocks would solve this problem but they seem to be items that no longer exist. Maybe it's possible to fit air springs in place of the steel wire type. But you'd be on your own regards spring rate and ride height.

Edit - just found these.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/354410137794?hash=item52847d88c2:gN0AAOSwSlxj~0yA&amdata=enc:AQAIAAAA4BiDKC14bifEVt8E9QJAUR2nPBFsPAbV62wJWLGu0QJwP14u1Fwkss1DGJ+D/5jHuRTH3/vRM3viaM0fryDbmSkT1Q32Yfl47msW+upPjIDinZ8xQHkPEB29V3KamHaJ+bDLp5uD8R52UlgIYilzZ+ws++iXTcVRLJmXsLMrpuVFhuBaarKCLF2vh7gYTcxS6yyxkDTFBHkh7HrhZ+asxjE/ePXr19KLe4VIkyHfhQMbYXy6XpSj+hDD5OzbWx7UNF8CwcY4RCOcT4u9A7ktS/B87K3PkXD2G6UwddqIlTZ6|tkp:Bk9SR5aT5rf0YQ

In the 1980s, I had Monroe AirRide shocks on a kit car. they assisted the main springs and allowed the ride hight to be pumped up when the (relatively light weight) car was loaded. They have to be correctly connected. Simply linking the shocks to a tank and air compressor causes excessive body roll, but its easy enough to sort out. Much research needed.

Edit 2 - Not so fast dude
The rear springs are retained by their own compression. Dropping the axle increases the swing arm angle. The spring (1) can no longer sit neatly into its axle pan and (2) its likely to jump out of place. I think air bag springs would be the best option. Scrap the coils and go for air springs.

 

[porta]

Mmm

Don't know, I don't have the 4x4

Heres some thoughts

As I jack up my 2WD panda front end. I can visably see the angle of the tyres changing (camber)


On a 2WD thats loaded the rear sits on the bump stops. Adding longer springs makes no difference if its still sitting on the bump stops.


If you have 175/65R15 and changed to 165/80R14 would give a 10mm lift

The spring spacers actually fit between the whole strut assembly and the body mounting…wehn I did this with the niva the kit came with spacers to fit between all the susp mounts so, theoretically, keeping all the distances the same. I did, however have all the tracking checked and did have to alter the panhard rod

 

[PandaVan4x4]

Hello!

So here is the update. I just mounted the +2,5cm lift kit (with springs) and changed the rear connecting rods with the longer ones (2 or 3 cm longer) - for the Fiat Doblo.
The result is this. See the pictures below...

Before change: all four 66cm
After: front 72 cm
Rear: 70 cm

Any idea why it's not the same? The car is empty, van model..so no seats at the back.
One more thing, what is or was the original distance of a brand new panda?

 

[The Panda Nut]

Oh deers. I used to do that with a Renault 5 exactly the same, stacked to the roof and trailer on the back similarly overloaded. Please be warned you must consider the total weight you are loading. My 5 used to haul wood really well, untill the springs said enough. I had a bill of £135 for new suspension and that was 45 years ago, so a hell of a lot of money. Pandas are bigger, and can hold more... You can easily put1.5 tons of wood in the back without much thought, and its all good until the car calls a halt. Just saying as I still wished I had used the trailer more and carried a lot less weight. Ok if the wood is dry it weighs a lot less. Don't do what I did.

 

[koalar]

Rear ride hight

Place the vehicle in standard 'A' conditions, i.e. with the spare wheel, tool kit, all fluids and a full tank of fuel. Check that the tyre pressures are correct.


Full fuel tank affects the results a lot

 

[PandaVan4x4]

Great info!

Thank you

 

[bugsymike]

Great info!

Thank you

You probably already know, but if ride height too high there will be excessive driveshafts CV joint wear due to them having to work all the time.
Unlikely, but the ideal is a straight line from driveshaft at gearbox/axles to wheel hubs.
In the past we had customers with excessively lowered front wheel drive cars, also cars with faulty hydrolastic suspension where the driveshaft joints could actually pull out on full lock. In that case when under the car you could see the driveshafts going uphill to the wheels, the opposite to raised suspension.

 

[porta]

I wonder if anyone has fit portal axles to a panda, there’s a haflinger round here, looks like it’s ‘floating’ above its wheels. I’ve always fancied a Fiat ACL75 and, as they’re of an age wehn military gear was right hand drive, a doddle to drive over here, as opposed to my Gaz 66 which was a blind spot nightmare!

 

[koalar]

These guys have done a lot of mods on the 4x4



2cm spacers
1cm with tyres
Plus a bit extra by moving the exhaust

In the video

Being a van model do the brakes have a load sensor?

I don't know I have never even seen the van version

 

[bugsymike]

I wonder if anyone has fit portal axles to a panda, there’s a haflinger round here, looks like it’s ‘floating’ above its wheels. I’ve always fancied a Fiat ACL75 and, as they’re of an age wehn military gear was right hand drive, a doddle to drive over here, as opposed to my Gaz 66 which was a blind spot nightmare!

Apparently they do a portal conversion for VW T5 vans.
I always thought it would give too much of a reduction gearing, making it unsuitable for Motorway cruising.
I see there is an Iveco version of the Fiat ACL75, we don't see much military style 4x4s in civilian use in UK.

 

[porta]

Apparently they do a portal conversion for VW T5 vans.
I always thought it would give too much of a reduction gearing, making it unsuitable for Motorway cruising.
I see there is an Iveco version of the Fiat ACL75, we don't see much military style 4x4s in civilian use in UK.

Yeah it was originally a Fiat, later models badged Fiat with the big ‘i’ then totally Iveco, and of course, the OM, Unic and even a Lancia badged one. Portal axles aren’t very good for long runs at full tilt, heated oil/grease in gears and hubs

 

[PandaVan4x4]

These guys have done a lot of mods on the 4x4



2cm spacers
1cm with tyres
Plus a bit extra by moving the exhaust

In the video

Being a van model do the brakes have a load sensor?

I don't know I have never even seen the van version

No, no load sensor.