Technical Left indicator relay dead, possible BSI issue

[bigS]

Hi all,

My Punto has been having a tough winter with a dying battery, which is now charged.

However, in all the confusion the left hand indicator relay seems to have failed.

I have an aftermarket Alarm which uses the indicators and it pulses them fine with the remote. I have disconnected the indicator relay from the alarm to ensure it is not interfering and I have experienced no change.

The right hand side works fine and the fuse is not blown. While the Hazard light switch does nothing.

In summary, Left hand indicator relay not working, Hazard lights not working, no indicator lights on dash for hazard/left hand indicator. While the right hand side works.

Can anyone help me here? I think the last place to look is the BSI but I want to confirm I'm not missing something simple as I'm afraid the Punto will have to go if it's a BSI issue.

Thanks Everyone.

 

[s and b]

cant say
i always advise NOT to fit non can bus alarms to these cars for this reason
is it possible an alarm wire has actually made the main wire from the bsi not work?
can you here the bsi clicking on left indicator
can you carefully remove this aftermarket alarm and retry
maybe hazard switch broke
maybe indicator switch broke
maybe water/damp into bsi causing problems

soz you is on your own here really unless you ask an auto electrician conversant with more than being able to wire up trailer harnesses as most of them only seem capable of these days or car clocking

 

[a1ant]

Hi mate,

When you say you've been having battery problems.... How has the battery been charged? and how have you been starting the car when thee battery has been dead?

How long has your aftermarket alarm been installed for?

I think its unlikely to be a faulty indicator stalk or hazard switch, as they both have separate feeds to the BCU so it would mean that they would both have had to of failed in order to be giving you the fault you are experiencing.

If you have a multi-meter, We can maybe talk you through a few tests in order to check that the BCU is A) recieving signal from the hazard switch and the Indicator stalk, and b) to see if there is any output from the BCU for the left indicators.

What punto do you have? Mk2/2b? and what engine?

Unfortunately it does look like a potentially failed BCU at this stage.

Alan

 

[bigS]

s and b

i always advise NOT to fit non can bus alarms to these cars for this reason

The is completely standalone and hooks into the battery, indicators and courtesy light switch only, as I fitted the alarm along with central locking myself. This is why I don't think it's at fault.
a1ant:

The Battery has only been charged by a good few long drives after a push start and yes I've been trying to start it while it was dead. Will this have caused an issue?

The after market alarm has been fitted for about 2 years and I don't think it's at fault.

I have a multi-meter, I've also had the BCU out today and stipped it down to the PCB to try and see any burn't tracks but I couldn't find any.

I'd be really grateful if you could talk me through a few of the points to test the switches?

The car is a 2002 Punto Mia, 1.2 8v Mk2.

Thanks for the great help guys.

 

[jon1612]

@s and b


The is completely standalone and hooks into the battery, indicators and courtesy light switch only, as I fitted the alarm along with central locking myself. This is why I don't think it's at fault.
@a1ant:

The Battery has only been charged by a good few long drives after a push start and yes I've been trying to start it while it was dead. Will this have caused an issue?

The after market alarm has been fitted for about 2 years and I don't think it's at fault.

I have a multi-meter, I've also had the BCU out today and stipped it down to the PCB to try and see any burn't tracks but I couldn't find any.

I'd be really grateful if you could talk me through a few of the points to test the switches?

The car is a 2002 Punto Mia, 1.2 8v Mk2.

Thanks for the great help guys.

disconnect the battery, charge the battery overnight or a few hours at least, reconnect it and try again, control units are twitchy at best and this would reset the body one and hopefully cure the problem
charging the battery eliminates a low voltage problem unless one of the cells is dying

 

[bigS]

Cheers Jon, My old battery charger is on the way out so it's a trip to Halfrauds tonight to pick one up and charge over night.

I will update in the morning to see if there's been any progress.

 

[jon1612]

Cheers Jon, My old battery charger is on the way out so it's a trip to Halfrauds tonight to pick one up and charge over night.

I will update in the morning to see if there's been any progress.

thanks yes is always good to get feedback when problem is finaly resolved as it may help someone else with same problem

Jon

 

[bigS]

OK,

I have had the battery charging overnight, it was showing as 100% charged this morning when I refitted it.

Still nothing. Can anybody let me know how to test power feeds from the indicator stalk and the hazard switch? I'm pretty competent with cars but the amount of badly labelled wires in the Punto is a hazard!

Here's a few photos I snapped of the BCU circuitboard when I had it out, I don't see any sign of burn't modules or tracks but I assume this issue won't be visible to the naked eye.
https://www.fiatforum.com/gallery/showgallery.php?cat=3758


And here's a video link to the issue I am having with the indicators:

 

[jon1612]

OK,

I have had the battery charging overnight, it was showing as 100% charged this morning when I refitted it.

Still nothing. Can anybody let me know how to test power feeds from the indicator stalk and the hazard switch? I'm pretty competent with cars but the amount of badly labelled wires in the Punto is a hazard!

Here's a few photos I snapped of the BCU circuitboard when I had it out, I don't see any sign of burn't modules or tracks but I assume this issue won't be visible to the naked eye.
https://www.fiatforum.com/gallery/showgallery.php?cat=3758


And here's a video link to the issue I am having with the indicators:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fVI-uuaneM

was the stalk poping back up on its own from left turn as looked like a stalk problem, wont it stay down in left position ?

 

[bigS]

No, it was me moving the talk back up, the stalk seems to be working fine.

 

[s and b]

You have an aftermarket red led on the dash are you sure this isnt somehow connected to this problem.
Is this the post where you do have aftermarket alarm etc fitted where you said it was connected into the indicator bulbs?
You have to remember if you have done this then when alarm mode is on you put power into the indicator wiring and this can and will go back to the body
computer and can blow anything from a resister to the relay for the flashers.
Theres also what looks like water damage on the first 3 photos but it looks minimal rather than terminal.​

 

[bigS]

After a bit more hoking around the wiring Diagrams I think you're right s and b. There really is no safe way to fit an aftermarket alarm to the indicators and it seems a possible spike from the dead battery and push starts has caused the relays to fail.

I was able to isolate and test both the hazard light switch and the indicator stalk today and both were working, because these lead right into the BCU I think it's at fault.

I have removed the BCU now to gets the codes for a replacement and permanently disconnected the after market alarm from the indicators.

Is there anything I need to know about replacing the BCU along with ECU/Ignition/Keys/Lock barrels?

Will I need to proxy align the new setup and will the mileage be correct to my car or the BCU it is from?

Thanks for the help with this one guys, I got to the bottom of this one pretty quick thanks to the input!

Shannon

 

[bigS]

Bit of an update on this.

I had the BSI sitting on my desk so I decided to take a look through the fuses today.
I found Fuse 39 corroded and 49 blown. Fuse 39 has been replaced before as it was a different brand of fuse.

I never thought anything of these as 39 is for "Luggage compartment light, Interior light, audio system, diagnostic socket" according to Haynes and 49 is "Audio system. instrument cluster. electric mirrors"

I replaced them anyway on a hunch and set out to test the BSI/BCU again and what do you know, the left hand indicators sprang to life.

I'm not sure this was 100% the cause but I really hope it's sorted!

Shannon

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

cant say
i always advise NOT to fit non can bus alarms to these cars for this reason
is it possible an alarm wire has actually made the main wire from the bsi not work?
can you here the bsi clicking on left indicator
can you carefully remove this aftermarket alarm and retry
maybe hazard switch broke
maybe indicator switch broke
maybe water/damp into bsi causing problems

soz you is on your own here really unless you ask an auto electrician conversant with more than being able to wire up trailer harnesses as most of them only seem capable of these days or car clocking

:yeahthat:

s and b


The is completely standalone and hooks into the battery, indicators and courtesy light switch only, as I fitted the alarm along with central locking myself. This is why I don't think it's at fault.

Hows that? If connected to the indicators it'll be backwards feeding into the body computer, which can damage it. Like s and b has said this is why canbus alarm systems are the only ones which should be fitted.

 

[bigS]

I agree, I corrected myself in this post

After a bit more hoking around the wiring Diagrams I think you're right s and b. There really is no safe way to fit an aftermarket alarm to the indicators and it seems a possible spike from the dead battery and push starts has caused the relays to fail.
..

I have disconnected the indicators from the central locking completely now.

 

[varesecrazy]

leeips77.

food for thought