Technical Koni FSD rear shock rattle.. Shock!

[The Twins]

Well, all was fine with the FSD's for 3 months but I can now detect a rattle over stuttery surfaces on one side at the rear.

I called the dealer to report the problem, they acknowledged that it was a know issue and wait for it... (The shock)

Because I fitted them myself I have to pay £60 labour for them to assess if they are rattling.

I told them they can just drive up and down the road in front if the dealership or across their bumpy car park in less than 2 mins to 'assess' them. They won't budge on the £60 even tho they accept the parts are covered under warranty.

Surely this cannot be in line with consumer laws?

Any ideas anyone? (pls bgunn, don't say "should have bought Bilsteins")

 

[RUI]

The bolts are the problem not the shocks. Have a look at this
http://www.abarthforum.co.uk/500-abarth/fsd-koni-knocking-the-solution/

To be honest I see no problem with the charge as they are not standard parts on you car and you fitted them.

Fiat/Abarth/koni don't even know why they are like this but get some bolts made and that looks like it stops the problem.

 

[306maxi]

Wow, just wow.

 

[bgunn]

Surely this cannot be in line with consumer laws?

Any ideas anyone? (pls bgunn, don't say "should have bought Bilsteins")

I'm afraid you'll find the consumer protection laws don't cover the scenario you're in.

 

[The Twins]

The bolts are the problem not the shocks. Have a look at this
http://www.abarthforum.co.uk/500-abarth/fsd-koni-knocking-the-solution/

To be honest I see no problem with the charge as they are not standard parts on you car and you fitted them.

Fiat/Abarth/koni don't even know why they are like this but get some bolts made and that looks like it stops the problem.

Thanks RUI... Very interesting stuff.
Will try to source some bolts.

 

[Joseph500]

Thanks RUI... Very interesting stuff.
Will try to source some bolts.

If you do please let me know ...... I would be interested in buying a set !!

No-one in Oz is interested in a one off

 

[stevehg]

Just looked at the link RUI posted. Rose Joints should have a matched diameter bolt, otherwise you will get movement and excessive bearing wear. You may find that you will need to replace rose joints too. Does Koni supply these separately?

If not, they are always standard sizes, so you could press them out and replace. The other option is to find some poly urethane replacements that match measurements of Koni. Super Pro are a good make to try. They may have an off the shelf set to match your dimensions.

Lastly, you may find that if you only replace bolts, you will notice less noise at first and think it's fixed, but if the bearings have been damaged it will soon return.

Cheers

Steve

 

[306maxi]

They're not rose jointed

 

[jrkitching]

Remove the parts, take them back to the dealer & demand free replacement under warranty.

IIRC if you've had them less than 6 months & they're not fit for purpose, the burden of proof is on the supplier.

Robin may be able to clarify the legal position on this.

 

[RUI]

Remove the parts, take them back to the dealer & demand free replacement under warranty.

IIRC if you've had them less than 6 months & they're not fit for purpose, the burden of proof is on the supplier.

Robin may be able to clarify the legal position on this.

But were they not taken off someones Abarth and sold to him?
I am sure the warranty is only if they are still fitted to the original car.

 

[jrkitching]

But were they not taken off someones Abarth and sold to him?
I am sure the warranty is only if they are still fitted to the original car.

If they were sold as secondhand parts then I guess different rules apply. They still have to be correctly described and fit for purpose, though.

The mis-sized bolts issue sadly sounds like another all-too believeable FIAT co*k up.

But if the OP can fix it cheaply by replacing bolts & bushes, I'd do exactly that & forget about arguing the toss with the dealer.

I've said it before, but I'm less bothered about a warranty than I am about getting a car that's made from parts that don't break.

 

[stevehg]

They're not rose jointed

Sorry my mistake then, they looked rose jointed in 2nd thumbnail image in link. So what are they then? Single pressed rubber or urethane bushes??

 

[Murano16v]

Thanks RUI... Very interesting stuff.
Will try to source some bolts.

I'd be interested if you are able to source some bolts. Read right through the thread on the Abarth forum and it seems they are quite specific and maybe not available off the shelf.
My 595 has done 4K and I think I can detect a faint knocking, more so when travelling slowly, with nothing really when properly on the move. Checked all the other usual sources of rear end noises. Even if it's not the shocks, prevention will be better than cure. Now I know I could go back to the dealer, but I always try to avoid that.

 

[stevehg]

Personally I couldn't believe the OP on the link paid €380 for the 8 bolts. The M10 1.25 x 65mm is a standard bolt size, so you should have no problem sourcing these in high tensile or correct grade of stainless steel. The M12 in 95mm you may need to get custom cut as off the shelf are 90 or 100mm. This shouldn't be a problem or expensive though. Alternative could be to get 100mm and use 5mm M12 spacer washer.

Any decent fastener supplier should be able to source these for you, even if they are a custom cut.

Thanks

Steve

 

[jrkitching]

One potential source for decent S/Steel hardware is a ship's chandler - seagoing yachts use S/Steel bolts all over the place, for obvious reasons.

There's a place by the quayside in Lymington that will sell you all manner of high grade nuts, bolts & washers, off the shelf in any quantity you want.

I pop in about once a fortnight; if there is anything in particular that anyone is looking for, I could see if they can help & post it out.

 

[The Twins]

But were they not taken off someones Abarth and sold to him?
I am sure the warranty is only if they are still fitted to the original car.

No they weren't. I was going to buy some second hand ones but after some consideration I bought brand new ones directly from the dealer.

 

[The Twins]

If they were sold as secondhand parts then I guess different rules apply. They still have to be correctly described and fit for purpose, though.

The mis-sized bolts issue sadly sounds like another all-too believeable FIAT co*k up.

But if the OP can fix it cheaply by replacing bolts & bushes, I'd do exactly that & forget about arguing the toss with the dealer.

I've said it before, but I'm less bothered about a warranty than I am about getting a car that's made from parts that don't break.

I bought them brand new from the Fiat dealer. Thanks for your advice : )

 

[The Twins]

One potential source for decent S/Steel hardware is a ship's chandler - seagoing yachts use S/Steel bolts all over the place, for obvious reasons.

There's a place by the quayside in Lymington that will sell you all manner of high grade nuts, bolts & washers, off the shelf in any quantity you want.

I pop in about once a fortnight; if there is anything in particular that anyone is looking for, I could see if they can help & post it out.

That would be great if you could check.
It was a good point one of the previous posts about going for a standard 100mm with 5mm washers.

 

[Gregi]

I had just Esseesse Koni kit fitted and before that I was already aware with Koni's knocking issue and bolts solution to this knocking problem.

Finding typical M10x1.25x65 / 10,9 class and M12x1.25x95 / 8,8 class bolts is easy. However all of them have the part which is between bolt's head and their thread too thin which leads later to Koni knocking. This was 9 mm diameter in case of M10x1.25x65 bolt and 11 mm diameter in case of M12x1.25x95 and should be 10 mm and 12 mm diameter accordingly.

As I failed in proper bolts searching, in the end I had to have them custom made. M10x1.25x65 / 10,9 class bolts were made with 10 mm diameter and M12x1.25x95 / 8,8 class bolts were made with 12 mm diameter. Total cost was about 50 € with postage. Bolts are made of tempered steel and additionally galvanized. I reckon that they are better quality than OE one.

Before Koni fitting (out of curiosity) I put both custom made and OE bolts through shock's joints. With custom made there was almost no movement at all, as with OE one there was significant up and down movement. This 1 mm in diameter makes a difference

 

[deeyup]

I bought some avo adjustable rear dampers last year for my 500. They too suffered the rattle. Avo's answer was to tighten the bolts up very tight. Even at 150lbs on my torque wrench they still rattled. I though I was going to snap the wrench. I guess thicker shank bolts would cure this as I did note at the time the massive amount of play?