Technical JTD with broken vapour trap - now it wont start! [stuck EGR?]

[Argonought]

GREEN = Plug 2 NOT 3

The point about the undertray is it offers lots of advantages but only one disadvantage (when servicing - someone must remove it and then not forget to put it back )

The other point is that any good garage would have tied the vapour trap securely so there was no chance of it being dragged alone the road service (with or without undertray). Frankly, this level of incompetence beggars belief

 

[PhilM Star]

Yes, GREEN = Plug 2 NOT 3. I was writing that gone midnight last night and I am up at 6 so wrote it from memory. Checked the connector in the dark with a torch but just wanted to make some progress at least. It wasnt too bad but I had to disconnect fuel lines to get at the plug. All went back OK. I didnt bother with spraying the connectors as with that kind of reading its pretty clear its dead.

I have started having some doubts about one of the garages I use. As you say this is pretty poor service. His labour charge is greater than Warranty Direct will cover and he doesnt work Saturday morning when I can call in, Monday to Friday I'm long gone before he opens. The only advantage is he's round the corner from me so i can walk back when Ive dropped the car off and put the key through the letterbox.

Ive found my undertray in my garage so just need to find a way to attach it to my car once everything else is resolved. I'm hoping I can adapt something from another scrapyard car.

 

[Argonought]

I have started having some doubts about one of the garages I use.

Yes; finding a good Fiat specialist independant garage is over half the battle with Stilo ownership.

Even some main dealers offer first rate service (if you're really lucky ) My main dealer even refitted my undertray for no more than the price of the special fittings used (the old ones had rusted through)) and this on top of only charging £150 to change the cam belt.

Only today I had the yearly service & MoT carried out by my local specialist. Total cost was just £144.46 which included gear box oil change (excluding the cost of all oil used, which I supply, as it's rather expensive) and the service reset. Even got an Alfa 145 loan car :spin:

If the garage doesn't have Examiner then don't go near them (unless it's for something very routine)

 

[T14086]

I saw the reference to sparkplugs

lol yeah, still can be useful as a guide as said.

I still suspect there is another underlying problem but I'll take it one step at a time

Sounds like the sensible thing to do,you know in the end you will find the fault

 

[PhilM Star]

Ive just spoken to the engineer who worked on my car as a sub'd job from Nationwide in stoke on trent. It seems he didnt take off the inlet manifold but commented that the J cloth could get sucked in there. Nationwide have put there own spin on it and charged me for the privilige. He does suspect all sort of crap has been sucked in but after many attempts got the car to start, took it for a run. The next day it started so he sent it back. Nothing much has been done to my car except have the new air box fitted. Been charged £240 for this and £30 to tow it to the dealer. I only used them because the warranty company said I have to. He did say they had it on the examiner and couldnt find any faults but it may not have had the right connecton protocol as I think mine 2003 Stilo is not compliant with the new standard. I'm still tempted to get a proper Fiat Examiner connected. Found a glow plug for £7 on't net.

 

[Argonought]

I've had dealings with Nationwide but not any longer as they freely accept their diagnostic gear can't reset the service counter (bit of a story on this - which worked in my favour )

They spent ages pulling my car apart only to tell me it hasn't got a pollen filter fitted

One time they didn't tighten the oil filter properly and I discovered oil leaking from the undertray

On the plus side they did negotiate a 3rd party Warranty claim on my skyroof

At the end of the day - it does pay to deal with a garage that understands the car properly and also have the right equipment

 

[PhilM Star]

I'm waiting for a glow plug, went to Halfords but theyre all in fours and have every kind except stilo jtd 1.9. Found I have a fiat dealer 0.33 miles from me(new). they want £41.10 for half an hour on examiner. However, the engineer did say that with a glow plug fault, although it can start on three, if the faulty one is shorting out it will shut the engine down when it detects too great a current being drawn. He said he knew this from personnal experience. This seems to fit in with the fast draining battery when I try and start it. So as soon as the plug arrives I will try and fit it without stripping the threads. If this works I'll just have the flutter problem to get to the bottom of.

As regards poor service from garages, I am currently going to work in a P reg Punto. After driving 20 miles this morning, refuelling and going to start the engine died. Got a helpfull passerby to jump start the car for me (i'm in the north!) , and off I went to work. Called at a branch of Arnold Clarks where they checked it out and found that the battery hadnt been connected properly. Tightened it all up, measured battery and off I went - all for free.

I had a new clutch last week so its obviously from that!!! Maybe one day I'll find a local garage that understands cars properly and also has the right equipment

 

[minimad99]

When you do the plug change, do a picture guide for the site as not many (me included)have managed a DIY glowplug change

 

[PhilM Star]

When you do the plug change, do a picture guide for the site as not many (me included)have managed a DIY glowplug change

I'll do my best but I'm only changing one of the easier ones in the centre. Anyone can add to what i manage to do for the other more difficult ones.

 

[PhilM Star]

The glow plug has finally arrived and ive managed to fit it without too many problems. Just waiting for the battery to charge and then I'll give it a go. I'll try and put a guide together but I didnt find it that difficult. While doing this I found a part hanging from a wire. Its slightly smaller than a C cell battery in black plastic and was hanging down at the rear middle of the engine compartment so it was swinging next to the exhaust. It has a moulded bracket on the end where it should be screwed to something and there is a small silver dot on the other end. This looks very much like some sort of sensor to me. Anyone any ideas? I'll look on eper and see if I can find it.

 

[Argonought]

This looks very much like some sort of sensor to me. Anyone any ideas? I'll look on eper and see if I can find it.

Got a digital camera ?

 

[PhilM Star]

The glow plug error has now gone after a few attempts to start. Unfortunatley they are only attempts and the thing wont go. Nearly starts but wont quite catch. I'm going to have to get it towed to the FIAT dealer to have a look. Least they wont have to change glow plugs!

 

[PhilM Star]

Got a digital camera ?

Ive got one on my phone so will get a pic to post here. I looked on eper but the only thing that looked anything like it was an assembly on the top of the starter motor but not sure. Lets get a pic! Dont really want ot go down the FIAT route but I need to get it sorted as the scrap Punto I have been driving has blown up and the engine is kaput.

 

[Argonought]

You really do need to get some fault codes read - ideally with Examiner.

I'd say there's a fair chance one of those might point to the flywheel sensor as it's a very common problem and always intermittent. It's often a bad connection at the plug/socket, I gather, so worth a clean/check I'd think.

 

[PhilM Star]

You really do need to get some fault codes read - ideally with Examiner.

I'd say there's a fair chance one of those might point to the flywheel sensor as it's a very common problem and always intermittent. It's often a bad connection at the plug/socket, I gather, so worth a clean/check I'd think.

Ive uploaded some photos of the loose part. It looks very much to me like the part indicated as 1b on the image submitted by deckchair for the flywheel sensor. Nationwide said they tried swapping out the crank sensor. I'm wondering if they meant flywheel sensor and didnt secure it properly
This might explain why the car worked for a day after getting it back then failing

 

[minimad99]

Phil,
That looks exactly like a crank sensor, however i'm not sure if otehr sensors also use the same design.
If you can, get under the car and look up the back of the engine slightly to the left of centre near the top.
If there is a hole then that will be where that sensor should be housed. If not you should see another one exactly the same which will rule out the crank sensor.

For info, if the crank sensor is duff or missing then the car won't start as it doesn't know if eveything is safely lined up inside, it's a kind of safety thing for your engine.
As you mentioned it firing but not starting I'd put money on the garage not tightening it up properly and its worked loose.

 

[PhilM Star]

I'll get under the car as soon as i can. We have snow falling at present and it will be dark when i get home. With the engine not starting its difficult to get it on the ramps and i aint going under just on the jack! I'd place that bet on the garage as well. When I went to collect it having been told it was ready, I was just about to drive off when i spotted the battery cover in the footwell. What else have they forgotten to do?

 

[stilosporting]

You really do need to get some fault codes read - ideally with Examiner.

I'd say there's a fair chance one of those might point to the flywheel sensor as it's a very common problem and always intermittent. It's often a bad connection at the plug/socket, I gather, so worth a clean/check I'd think.

are you classing the flywheel sensor the same as the crank sensor?

 

[Argonought]

Same beast as far as I know.

 

[PhilM Star]

are you classing the flywheel sensor the same as the crank sensor?

On the thread "1.9 JTD - Replace crankshaft sensor - now won't start at all."

John55 said;
"Doesn't the JTD have 2 sensors, one on the flywheel and one on the cam shaft?"