General Is This Rust Acceptable?

[Froggyted]

Hi folks. I'm considering buying a motorhome but am just a little concerned about the MOT history of the Ducato chassis. Seems like rust started to become an issue about 6 years ago. If you're in the UK I'd be interested in your opinions. The reg is EY04 EVJ, the MOT history can be checked at the HM Government site here: https://www.gov.uk/check-mot-history

Cheers

Froggy

EY04 EVJ

 

[bugsymike]

Hi folks. I'm considering buying a motorhome but am just a little concerned about the MOT history of the Ducato chassis. Seems like rust started to become an issue about 6 years ago. If you're in the UK I'd be interested in your opinions. The reg is EY04 EVJ, the MOT history can be checked at the HM Government site here: https://www.gov.uk/check-mot-history

Cheers

Froggy

Answer NO!
Unless rust completely cut out and replaced with new metal and well protected it will only get worse.
Any of my customers whose cars I took for Mot and needed even a small patch welding, my advice to them was sell it as each year it will need a bit more welding.
With a Motorhome I would guess you are paying strong money for, when the same age van which it is based on would struggle to make four figures, The only advantage to me over an old work van is that it will probably be low mileage, but you will be trying to buy parts for a 22 year old vehicle which can be another problem. Sorry, just my opinion.
There are many owners who bought their MHs new and looked after them well so completely rust free, but this doesn't sound like one of those.

 

[Froggyted]

Answer NO!
Unless rust completely cut out and replaced with new metal and well protected it will only get worse.
Any of my customers whose cars I took for Mot and needed even a small patch welding, my advice to them was sell it as each year it will need a bit more welding.
With a Motorhome I would guess you are paying strong money for, when the same age van which it is based on would struggle to make four figures, The only advantage to me over an old work van is that it will probably be low mileage, but you will be trying to buy parts for a 22 year old vehicle which can be another problem. Sorry, just my opinion.
There are many owners who bought their MHs new and looked after them well so completely rust free, but this doesn't sound like one of those.

Ok, thanks for the advice. I've viewed the vehicle and it looks good but I didn't get underneath it. Certainly the wheel arches and step areas, which i know are weak points, are solid, the engine bay looks completely sound with no evidence of moisture dripping through from the windscreen scuttle, which is another weak point. I'm going to pay for a professional pre-purchase survey and ask them to pay particular attention to undercab rust. Did you get to see the MOT record? It's passed the last two or three with no advisories on the last so hopefully the rust areas got the right remedial action. I'll get the report in the next few days.

 

[bugsymike]

Ok, thanks for the advice. I've viewed the vehicle and it looks good but I didn't get underneath it. Certainly the wheel arches and step areas, which i know are weak points, are solid, the engine bay looks completely sound with no evidence of moisture dripping through from the windscreen scuttle, which is another weak point. I'm going to pay for a professional pre-purchase survey and ask them to pay particular attention to undercab rust. Did you get to see the MOT record? It's passed the last two or three with no advisories on the last so hopefully the rust areas got the right remedial action. I'll get the report in the next few days.

Your choice, your money, but having read the previous Mot reports going back to 2021 and based on many years in the Motor trade personally I would not buy it. Apart from anything else, should you decide to sell it, then the next prospective owner will do the same check on previous history and will value it accordingly.
Did you note that the year after it had extensive welding repairs, the very next year there were advisories so clearly it wasn't all cut back and repaired to a high standard. Rust only gets worse, it is not like pulling off a bandage and finding it has "healed" miraculously.
I have inspected many vehicles for customers and had the salesmen offer a considerably financial inducement to say the vehicles was good, which I declined as I valued my loyal customers.

 

[Froggyted]

Yes, i did notice that and it's my major concern. I will ask the engineer to check this area very carefully to see if the correct remedial action was taken. There were no advisories on the last MOT so maybe the correct work was done or maybe the inspector wasnt... observant enough. It's a minefield buting a vehicle this age and the vast majority of motorhomes are built on Fiat/Peugot/Citroen chassis out of the same factory that didnt make an effort to seriously address rust issues until 2007/8, but i can't afford anything from that era.

As an aside, I've been offered waxoyl underbody treatment if i went ahead with the sale but i know there are mixed opinions on using this on older vehicles where future welding may be needed, do you have any opinions on this?

 

[bugsymike]

Yes, i did notice that and it's my major concern. I will ask the engineer to check this area very carefully to see if the correct remedial action was taken. There were no advisories on the last MOT so maybe the correct work was done or maybe the inspector wasnt... observant enough. It's a minefield buting a vehicle this age and the vast majority of motorhomes are built on Fiat/Peugot/Citroen chassis out of the same factory that didnt make an effort to seriously address rust issues until 2007/8, but i can't afford anything from that era.

As an aside, I've been offered waxoyl underbody treatment if i went ahead with the sale but i know there are mixed opinions on using this on older vehicles where future welding may be needed, do you have any opinions on this?

Re Waxoyl, if done from new then a great idea but I feel that "horse has already bolted" and like underseal, it is only covering up a future problem when done later in it's life, as I have found in the past with cars that have been Waxoyled as you start to weld at one end suddenly smoke and flames are coming out several metres away.
Don't put too much credence in a clean Mot, one of my daughters had a VW Tiguan 4X4 some years ago and we noticed it was getting more than a bit rusty around the rear subframe so she sold it to a trader quite cheap, we noticed that it resold within a couple of weeks for several thousand pounds more, out of interest I looked at the Gov MOT site and there was no mention of the badly rusted subframe which was on the previous MOT advisories, instead they had failed it on a couple of cheap fictitious easily repaired items which I know for a fact didn't exist and it was then given a fresh Mot.
I assume the vehicle you are interested in is advertised for sale some miles from where you live, otherwise you could ask for your own reliable garage that you trust and regularly use, to give it an independent Mot before you invest in it.
Many years ago I worked as foreman of a dealership and was also an Mot tester, some of the rubbish I have seen for test was a real eye opener. We even had dodgy car salesmen trying to bribe other Mot testers to pass their rubbish, once they realised I wouldn't permit it they soon departed for easier Mot's elsewhere!
We used to have a Council Depot nearby that would do private Mots as well as their own fleet, they didn't do repairs so they had no axe to grind and the tests were not over the top, but fair. i used to take my 3.5 tonne Iveco Daily's to them and also one of my customers a 7.5 tonne Cherokee Sun Voyager Motor home that he used to tow his car behind and drive down to Spain etc.

 

[Froggyted]

Ok, thanks for your feedback on the waxoyl, appreciated.

It's a minefield for sure, and maybe penalties need to be harsher on people in the motor trade giving false advice.

I've heard several people over the years recommended council MOT centres so whatever vehicle i decide to buy maybe that's where I'll go for the first MOT.

I don't know how familiar you are with the Ducato but one YouTube video features a welder suggesting the front arches (from memory) being the hardest area to repair, i think because of the extra disassembly required. Have you any views on the approximate hours involved for such a repair?

Due to Fiat's notoriety for rust issues it makes me wonder why so many motorhome builders chose the Ducato as their base cab in the first place, but that's the state of play, next popular is i think the Peugot Boxer out of the very same factory.

 

[bugsymike]

Ok, thanks for your feedback on the waxoyl, appreciated.

It's a minefield for sure, and maybe penalties need to be harsher on people in the motor trade giving false advice.

I've heard several people over the years recommended council MOT centres so whatever vehicle i decide to buy maybe that's where I'll go for the first MOT.

I don't know how familiar you are with the Ducato but one YouTube video features a welder suggesting the front arches (from memory) being the hardest area to repair, i think because of the extra disassembly required. Have you any views on the approximate hours involved for such a repair?

Due to Fiat's notoriety for rust issues it makes me wonder why so many motorhome builders chose the Ducato as their base cab in the first place, but that's the state of play, next popular is i think the Peugot Boxer out of the very same factory.

In fairness I have only ever owned one Fiat Ducato a Maxi van 2.8iDT 122hp, a customer of mine bought it new for his business and for many years I serviced it, knowing the history when he was replacing it with Citroen Dispatches I bought the van , but only so I could rebuild the engine and put it in my boat to replace the 3.75litre V6 petrol Volvo Penta 150hp, it took a while but in the end I was able to almost match the originals speed 30 knots@10 gallons to the hour on five star petrol, I got 26 knots and four gallons to the hour on diesel, it took a while but then I ran it Summer and Winter for 4 years reliably.
Most of the repairs on the Ducato in it's working life were fixing sliding doors, servicing and replacing windscreen for every Mot due to body flex. I understand his drivers were not kind.
I generally ran Iveco Daily's with the same engine in rear wheel drive form as I preferred the separate steel chassis and the 3.5 tonne towing capacity.

 

[Froggyted]

My last four cars have been Volvos so i have a very high regard for them, although none of them have had genuine (highly regarded) Volvo engines. I don't remember any of these cars failing MOTs for rust, my current one is now 18 years old, I've had it for over 15 and still no serious rust issues, most of the problems are down to Ford parts during their ownership of the marque, including the Ford/Peugot engine that, at around 80k, started leaking fuel past one or more injectors requiring oil changes approx every 3.5k miles (or probably upwards of 2k on new injectors). Fortunately i only do about 5k miles pa these days so have tolerated this for the last few years and will be selling the vehicle once i get a motorhome.

We sold a narrowboat last year, it had a highly regarded Yanmar (Japanese) engine in it, marinised in the UK by Barrus, built approx 2002 and the engine oil level never dropped a millimetre between annual services!

With regard to the Ducato, I'd be interested from you or anybody else in the approximate hours work involved to cut and replace rusted metal should it ever be required so i can set money aside, for example around a suspension mounting or wheel arch. Whichever motorhome i decided to buy I'm guessing that on the budget i have it will always be a risk. I'm hoping to have a motorhome for three years, use it extensively and have a lot of fun, then reassess, if i still enjoy the experience maybe then i will be able to afford a post-2007 model with a galvanised metal cab.

 

[bugsymike]

My last four cars have been Volvos so i have a very high regard for them, although none of them have had genuine (highly regarded) Volvo engines. I don't remember any of these cars failing MOTs for rust, my current one is now 18 years old, I've had it for over 15 and still no serious rust issues, most of the problems are down to Ford parts during their ownership of the marque, including the Ford/Peugot engine that, at around 80k, started leaking fuel past one or more injectors requiring oil changes approx every 3.5k miles (or probably upwards of 2k on new injectors). Fortunately i only do about 5k miles pa these days so have tolerated this for the last few years and will be selling the vehicle once i get a motorhome.

We sold a narrowboat last year, it had a highly regarded Yanmar (Japanese) engine in it, marinised in the UK by Barrus, built approx 2002 and the engine oil level never dropped a millimetre between annual services!

With regard to the Ducato, I'd be interested from you or anybody else in the approximate hours work involved to cut and replace rusted metal should it ever be required so i can set money aside, for example around a suspension mounting or wheel arch. Whichever motorhome i decided to buy I'm guessing that on the budget i have it will always be a risk. I'm hoping to have a motorhome for three years, use it extensively and have a lot of fun, then reassess, if i still enjoy the experience maybe then i will be able to afford a post-2007 model with a galvanised metal cab.

Volvo a different class re rust, I always like the 145 a nice useful estate, the old Amazon was OK and the 50s "beetleback"but the P1800 was a much more classy version of an MGB GT to to my eyes, as an apprentice we used to service one and it was a nice drive.
When the children were young we did several canal barge holidays, they mostly ran Perkins engines back then.
Can't give a price for welding to many variables. Any way you know my thoughts re rusty vehicles.