Insurance question(s)

[AnthonyH]

I have a fairly complicated insurance month coming up. I have a Grande Punto that is insured by me and I'm a named driver on my wifes Punto EVO, but the cars are basically interchangeable. I've bought a Fiat 500X that now needs insuring and next month my 17 year old son needs insuring to drive one of the Puntos. I currently have full no claims discount applied to the Grande Punto.

So how can i minimise the cost here? Ideally i'd like to keep all 3 cars on the road.

I need to get my full no claims off the Grande Punto to apply to the 500X i presume, but i don't particularly want to cancel the policy.

My son will need to be on my insurance possibly, as i have full no claims and my wife has only 2 years.

Thoughts? I'm struggling to see an easy or cheap path through here.

 

[StevenRB45]

Personally I'd explore the possibility of a 0 NCD policy on the 500x.

Depending on your driving history and your wife's there's a reasonable chance it'll qualify for all the introductory discounts going as both drivers are a bit older and you get an insured and spouse discount and if you have other policies with no claims on them in 5 years and have been driving more than 5 years although technically you have no NCD to use they can see you're a half decent risk. If you go on to sell one of the others the bonus could then be transferred in.

This is what we did when insuring the Toyota (despite 0 NCD it ended up being cheaper than the car with 14 years on it).

This then leaves the NCD free for the young driver policy..which will qualify for every loading going and be exempt for pretty much all discount criteria except for no claims discount.

 

[bugsymike]

Isn't it better to bite the bullet and start him on his own insurance to gain No claims Bonus, as any little knock which often happens with young drivers will be across all your insurance policies as you will be oblidged to declare it.
In the old days I would have trusted an insurance broker to give fair advise if you were a regular customer, these days???

 

[StevenRB45]

If he's not the owner of the car he can't insure it in his name and earn bonus anyway.

If it's in his name there's a decent chance at 17 it'll be 4 figures starting with a 2 or a 3 unless it's a telematic policy.

In case you're wondering...I used to work for an insurance broker

Entirely depends if it's putting him on for the odd time or it's going to be his car.

 

[AnthonyH]

Personally I'd explore the possibility of a 0 NCD policy on the 500x.

Depending on your driving history and your wife's there's a reasonable chance it'll qualify for all the introductory discounts going as both drivers are a bit older and you get an insured and spouse discount and if you have other policies with no claims on them in 5 years and have been driving more than 5 years although technically you have no NCD to use they can see you're a half decent risk. If you go on to sell one of the others the bonus could then be transferred in.

This is what we did when insuring the Toyota (despite 0 NCD it ended up being cheaper than the car with 14 years on it).

This then leaves the NCD free for the young driver policy..which will qualify for every loading going and be exempt for pretty much all discount criteria except for no claims discount.

Hmmm, yes that is something i'll definitely research. Thanks for the idea. Outwardly this sounds like a win, i'll need to look at prices for both angles. 0 NCD on the 500X and full on the Grande Punto with the junior driver. And switching full NCD from GP to 500x and a new 0 NCD on the GP with the junior.

 

[AnthonyH]

Isn't it better to bite the bullet and start him on his own insurance to gain No claims Bonus, as any little knock which often happens with young drivers will be across all your insurance policies as you will be oblidged to declare it.
In the old days I would have trusted an insurance broker to give fair advise if you were a regular customer, these days???

I did some research into prices at the start of the year and it was around £4k per year for him to have his own policy, extortion really, and this was for a Punto. So he'd need to get past the first few months, maybe a year, on my or my wifes policy. That reduced the price to around £2k per year...

 

[AnthonyH]

If he's not the owner of the car he can't insure it in his name and earn bonus anyway.

If it's in his name there's a decent chance at 17 it'll be 4 figures starting with a 2 or a 3 unless it's a telematic policy.

In case you're wondering...I used to work for an insurance broker

Entirely depends if it's putting him on for the odd time or it's going to be his car.

I can give him the car, a Punto, i tried to buy him into a Panda that I could buy but he wasn't convinced.

But he would be on the insurance permanently, so he can drive to college etc. I may need to switch to some kind of telematic policy.

 

[StevenRB45]

I can give him the car, a Punto, i tried to buy him into a Panda that I could buy but he wasn't convinced.

But he would be on the insurance permanently, so he can drive to college etc. I may need to switch to some kind of telematic policy.

The only thing with that is the insurer will absolutely look at any claim very hard indeed if he's not listed as main driver and there's a claim with him driving.

They are very aware of "fronting" and it will set alarm bells going in the fraud department. So if he's driving to college 5 days a week and you and your wife may occasionally use it on the weekend you'll have to set it up reflecting that as tempting as it it is not to financially. So hopefully your 2k quote was with him as main user? Also if he lives away quotes get problematic.

You need something called insurable interest to insure a car, i.e. if next door bought a Porsche and drives like a helmet I can't insure his car on the off chance he'll bin it and I'll get a pay out need to stand to lose something. Transferring it into his name will do it though.

 

[AnthonyH]

The only thing with that is the insurer will absolutely look at any claim very hard indeed if he's not listed as main driver and there's a claim with him driving.

They are very aware of "fronting" and it will set alarm bells going in the fraud department. So if he's driving to college 5 days a week and you and your wife may occasionally use it on the weekend you'll have to set it up reflecting that as tempting as it it is not to financially. So hopefully your 2k quote was with him as main user? Also if he lives away quotes get problematic.

You need something called insurable interest to insure a car, i.e. if next door bought a Porsche and drives like a helmet I can't insure his car on the off chance he'll bin it and I'll get a pay out need to stand to lose something. Transferring it into his name will do it though.

Sadly the 4K quote was for him to own a car and have his own policy as the main driver. For a car worth £800.

The 2K was to be a named driver on my policy with full NCD.

 

[StevenRB45]

Sadly the 4K quote was for him to own a car and have his own policy as the main driver. For a car worth £800.

The 2K was to be a named driver on my policy with full NCD.

This is what I figured, though if you go down named driver route you'll have to take into account the points mentioned.

Any policy for an old cheap car with 2 older drivers and one 17 year old is likely to qualify for extra checks by default.

When I say main driver/user in insurance it's the person driving the car the most..not necessarily the policy holder.

So I'm main user on both our cars despite the Toyota being in wife's name...as I do the majority of the driving.

 

[AnthonyH]

This is what I figured, though if you go down named driver route you'll have to take into account the points mentioned.

Any policy for an old cheap car with 2 older drivers and one 17 year old is likely to qualify for extra checks by default.

When I say main user in insurance it's the person driving the car the most..not necessarily the policy holder.

So I'm main user on both our cars despite the Toyota being in wife's name...as I do the majority of the driving.

He'll be going to college 3 times a week, about 4 hours of driving per week during term time. Everything else he does is local and he'll likely get lifts or walk. So it'll be honest for me to be the main driver on the Grande Punto using full NCD and him as a named driver. I may have to cancel my current policy on that and get a telematic/ tracking policy, with my wife removed you reckon, or should she stay on it?

 

[StevenRB45]

He'll be going to college 3 times a week, about 4 hours of driving per week during term time. Everything else he does is local and he'll likely get lifts or walk. So it'll be honest for me to be the main driver on the Grande Punto using full NCD and him as a named driver. I may have to cancel my current policy on that and get a telematic/ tracking policy, with my wife removed you reckon, or should she stay on it?

I'd doubt your wife will make any major impact on the policy, might be worth doing quotes with and without but there's a decent chance she'd lower it overall, she's not the problem as it were.

Main thing is this is the sort of policy where due to costs people tend to get a bit creative with the truth so it's worth considering the details as any claims tend to get looked at forensically to ensure they only pay out on policies that are set up correctly.

 

[AnthonyH]

I'd doubt your wife will make any major impact on the policy, might be worth doing quotes with and without but there's a decent chance she'd lower it overall, she's not the problem as it were.

Main thing is this is the sort of policy where due to costs people tend to get a bit creative with the truth so it's worth considering the details as any claims tend to get looked at forensically to ensure they only pay out on policies that are set up correctly.

I get that. Honesty is the best policy. He's not reckless at all, but the insurance companies won't know that.

 

[AnthonyH]

I got my son car insurance today. I put him as a named driver on my 1.2 litre Grande Punto, its insurance group 3, so cheap, its also the car with my full no claims discount. I won't mind him writing the car off so long as he's unhurt and no other cars are involved, most likely he'll be safe and not crash at all. His first time on the road will be tomorrow. That'll be interesting!

My premium went up from £18 per month to £183.

I'll be insuring my 500X shortly, the quotes with zero no claims discount are around £450 per year.

 

[StevenRB45]

So about 2k on the Grande then.

Figured the 500x would be reasonable with 0 bonus, two decent risk drivers a car anyone who likes to race on the public road would run 1000 miles away from usually gets a decent figure.

You'd also probably find it's actually cheaper for him to be insured on the 500x with full bonus than the grande just because of claims history which is more important than insurance group at this age.

 

[AnthonyH]

So about 2k on the Grande then.

Figured the 500x would be reasonable with 0 bonus, two decent risk drivers a car anyone who likes to race on the public road would run 1000 miles away from usually gets a decent figure.

You'd also probably find it's actually cheaper for him to be insured on the 500x with full bonus than the grande just because of claims history which is more important than insurance group at this age.

The policy on the Grande Punto runs out in February so I have a get out clause after 4 months, i'll try to get my son through a test and onto his full driving license by then. Insurance will be cheaper when he's off his provisional license.

He's already sat his theory test, he failed by just 3 points, given how little he studied i'm surprised he got that close. I put him forward for his theory test just 2 days after his 17th birthday, the wait for an actual driving test can be up to 6 months and you must have passed the theory before you are allowed to book the driving test. The 6 months wait is of course ridiculous, and the result of a poor website that allows bots to buy up all the slots and then they get resold at an inflated price.

 

[StevenRB45]

i'll try to get my son through a test and onto his full driving license by then. Insurance will be cheaper when he's off his provisional license.

I fear you'll be sadly disappointed on that score, provisional quotes are generally lower because the expectation is there's a responsible adult in the car stopping them from launching it into a bus stop queue upside down with 4 mates on board.

With a full license no adult required...

 

[AnthonyH]

I fear you'll be sadly disappointed on that score, provisional quotes are generally lower because the expectation is there's a responsible adult in the car stopping them from launching it into a bus stop queue upside down with 4 mates on board.

With a full license no adult required...

Oh, thats a good point. I guess that one is to be determined. I suppose he's on a black box when he passes his test? Any other thoughts?

 

[StevenRB45]

It's been a while since I did this for a job...also we were terrible at young driver quotes so I rarely had to deal with them.

Admiral used to be reasonably competitive as did Tesco but been a while since I needed a young driver quote.

Think main thing is when you do your quotes for full year probably phone cheapest 3 and do quotes with your young driver with a full license as well as the provisional. So if you get to February and he's not passed you don't end up in the possible situation of having to cancel a policy mid year and pay a cancellation fee because they can no longer cover him on a full license when they would as a provisional (I've had this happen before from the professional end no fun when the current company who were very reasonable for a learner will not quote for a 17 year old and the only other option you have to offer is 5k with a 1k excess).

 

[AnthonyH]

Thats a good point. I didn't know that when he passes his test i have to let the insurance company know. It seems obvious now, but i can imagine a lot of people would miss this. I suppose I had some inkling that its best for him to pass his driving test before the current insurance runs out in February, but i didn't know why.