Technical Inspecting Drum Brakes

[SB1500]

Video: Drum Brake Inspection




AB100 , daveofkent < saw you liked my post so thought I'd tag you in the finished result!

So, what can you guys tell me about my drum brakes?

Looks like the shoes are brave and thick to me, that adjuster (which is apparently welded) looks awfully shiny compared to the rest of the components.... Could that be the cause of my handbrake problems?

 

[AB100]

Impressive demo for the one-handed mechanic. I think you need a head-mounted fake-GoPro..........two hands are easier.


1. The shoes have almost no wear. They are fine.


2. Drums look in fair nick inside though not easy to tell exactly


3. That shiny handbrake adjuster is definitely newish


4. Watch your video when you press the footbrake and then the handbrake:

a) FOOTBRAKE - the shoes definitely push out

b) HANDBRAKE - the lever behind the shoes moves well but I cannot see that it pushes the shoes at all. That mechanism seems at fault


When you jack the car with handbrake on, can you turn either rear wheel

 

[SB1500]

AB100 , thanks for the reply.

Fiat told me the only problem was 'welded adjusters', perhaps the problem was these are the aftermarket and lousy type of adjuster fitted, and the only real way to fix it is to let them sort it?

As you said, working with drums can be a pig of a job, - messy and tedious with all the springs, let alone trying to find out what's meant by 'welded' in my case?

Their quote for £127 is tempting to get it solved, but I'll have to check that for you.

The handbrake does hold the car, it's the fact sometimes when I drive off its still holding the rear wheels, the adjusters seem to have trouble releasing - most but not all times.

Last week the back wheels stuck as though the handbrake was applied when it was not :-(

The OEM adjusters may be the only option that will solve the problem?

 

[AB100]

@AB100 , thanks for the reply.

Fiat told me the only problem was 'welded adjusters', perhaps the problem was these are the aftermarket and lousy type of adjuster fitted, and the only real way to fix it is to let them sort it?

As you said, working with drums can be a pig of a job, - messy and tedious with all the springs, let alone trying to find out what's meant by 'welded' in my case?

Their quote for £127 is tempting to get it solved, but I'll have to check that for you.

The handbrake does hold the car, it's the fact sometimes when I drive off its still holding the rear wheels, the adjusters seem to have trouble releasing - most but not all times.

Last week the back wheels stuck as though the handbrake was applied when it was not :-(

The OEM adjusters may be the only option that will solve the problem?

The rest of the drum looks fine inside - on that wheel at least. The sticking is weird but can happened when the shoe or drum surface has something on them (usually when a rubber seal has fallen off and got spun/destroyed/heated and spread all over the shoe/drum). Did you feel the inside of the drum for super-smoothness? Also, feel the surface of the shoes - no stickiness?


Check the other drum as well - it may not be the handbrake release that's at fault.


I'm not entirely convinced by FIATs explanation. I'd be more tempted with a local garage/tyre fitter type place.

 

[SB1500]

The rest of the drum looks fine inside - on that wheel at least. The sticking is weird but can happened when the shoe or drum surface has something on them (usually when a rubber seal has fallen off and got spun/destroyed/heated and spread all over the shoe/drum). Did you feel the inside of the drum for super-smoothness? Also, feel the surface of the shoes - no stickiness?


Check the other drum as well - it may not be the handbrake release that's at fault.


I'm not entirely convinced by FIATs explanation. I'd be more tempted with a local garage/tyre fitter type place.

I will have to repeat the procedure (this time perhaps on the other side) and see if it is super smooth. I was weary of touching those surfaces in case it contaminated the surfaces.

If there is 'rubber' causing stickiness, would it be a matter of part replacement or brake cleaner?

I would have imagined the handbrake release but I can't see exactly how.

As for Fiat, well my sister (past owner) did admit to paying a local idiot to weld the adjusters as it was cheaper than whatever the original problem was.. How that little adjusting mechanism can be / has been welded is a mystery to us all [emoji47]

Fiat seems to know what it is, and if you were in person you probably would too. Apologies that I can't provide a better description. I've asked fiat about 3 times to explain it differently but no joy.

I am reluctant to take it to them, so far the timing belt and shocks have been fixed by my uncle and me. I'd love to fix this too, if only I could get to the bottom of it

 

[AB100]

I will have to repeat the procedure (this time perhaps on the other side) and see if it is super smooth. I was weary of touching those surfaces in case it contaminated the surfaces.

If there is 'rubber' causing stickiness, would it be a matter of part replacement or brake cleaner?

I would have imagined the handbrake release but I can't see exactly how.

As for Fiat, well my sister (past owner) did admit to paying a local idiot to weld the adjusters as it was cheaper than whatever the original problem was.. How that little adjusting mechanism can be / has been welded is a mystery to us all [emoji47]

Fiat seems to know what it is, and if you were in person you probably would too. Apologies that I can't provide a better description. I've asked fiat about 3 times to explain it differently but no joy.

I am reluctant to take it to them, so far the timing belt and shocks have been fixed by my uncle and me. I'd love to fix this too, if only I could get to the bottom of it

I wouldn't worry about touching the surfaces. If there is contamination/stickiness on the drum, that'd clean off with petrol etc. On the shoes - you could sand them down but may not want to breathe in the brake dust.


If the handbrake levering is broken, are you near a local scrapyard with a Panda available? Always better to go and play on their stuff first - see if you can retrieve the 'shiny' part from there.


Would be nice to know exactly what was welded though.

 

[SB1500]

I wouldn't worry about touching the surfaces. If there is contamination/stickiness on the drum, that'd clean off with petrol etc. On the shoes - you could sand them down but may not want to breathe in the brake dust.


If the handbrake levering is broken, are you near a local scrapyard with a Panda available? Always better to go and play on their stuff first - see if you can retrieve the 'shiny' part from there.


Would be nice to know exactly what was welded though.

Perhaps if this is all seemingly fine (inside the drum brakes) then it is a part similar to this photo of a Cinq?

The guy from Fiat said "We were unable to adjust your handbrake as the adjuster(s?) were welded. This will need new parts that are only available for your Panda from Fiat."

Could he have meant another part of the adjustment system such as what is photographed?

 

[SB1500]

Further info, perhaps this is what Fiat meant by 'welded adjuster'.

Since my drum brake adjusters seem to be shiny, new and apparently working?

 

[AB100]

Well, there's certainly the option to photograph that piece as it's here the handbrake is normally adjusted.


1. Lay on ground


2. Phone on video


3. Light source under the car


4. Wave the phone about and video it

 

[SB1500]

Well, there's certainly the option to photograph that piece as it's here the handbrake is normally adjusted.


1. Lay on ground


2. Phone on video


3. Light source under the car


4. Wave the phone about and video it

I will try and get this filmed / photographed tonight if possible.

Come to think of it, it makes more sense that Fiat would encounter this mystical welding trying to adjust the handbrake cable under the car, rather than inspecting inside of the drums

Hope this will uncover some obvious damage so I know what to replace and be able to see if I can source some parts other than Fiats claim being that only they can provide it

 

[Asa James]

Only a really shoddy mechanic will adjust the handbrake from under the car. Or a bonus led dealer tech...

The handbrake should ALWAYS be adjusted on the shoes. The cable adjuster should only be used to take the slack up before the cable operates, and have minimal free play on the handle. If your local to Cheshire I'm tempted to come take a look, usually nothing at all serious with drums

 

[Asa James]

Also watching the vid,
1) never work on a car supported by a widowmaker jack. Or any jack. Axle stands are a must.
2) the handbrake was stopping you car rolling, if your working on the back leave in gear, or ideal, chock the front wheels
3) the brake drum bolts/wheel locators are 12mm
4) the drum is cast iron, if your going to hammer it use a smaller hammer, big hammer +cast = cracks, and I've seen it done
5) if you look thru the wheel bolt holes, you'll see the adjuster. Back it off, drum will need minimal persuading
6) cable adjustment, on this side at least, is fine. Can see its on its stop

7) you didn't readjust the shoes, the knurled winder on the threaded bar. It want to be wound so the shoes are just kissing the inside of the drum.

My advise, buy some brake cleaner, take the drum back off and clean all the dust away. Where the shoes touch the backplate, pull the shoe away slightly and apply some appropriate grease (copper grease is perfect) if you get any on the friction material, clean it up. Use a bit of emery cloth to rough up the face of the shoes, and make sure the inside of the drum is clean and rust free. Make sure the adjuster is freely moving, put the drum back on and thru a bolt hole adjust it till the drum goes tight. Back it off a few clicks, til it's just free, and repeat on other side. As I said, the adjuster underneath the car is for setting the free play in the handle (no more than 1/2") and with both sides adjusted properly you should have 3-5 clicks on the handbrake

 

[SB1500]

Only a really shoddy mechanic will adjust the handbrake from under the car. Or a bonus led dealer tech...

The handbrake should ALWAYS be adjusted on the shoes. The cable adjuster should only be used to take the slack up before the cable operates, and have minimal free play on the handle. If your local to Cheshire I'm tempted to come take a look, usually nothing at all serious with drums

I used to live in Runcorn too, but as I'm in Northern Ireland now I'd say that's too far for many of you on here :-/

I've discovered today the actual adjuster near the handbrake under the central console. We tightened this, and now the handbrake is tight and will quickly bring the car to a stop on a steep hill. (I know you shouldn't stop a moving car with the handbrake, but this was a good means to testing its effectiveness).

As for the sticking, we gave it a good clean and spray with some sort of tool cleaner AC 90 or something? As well as some type of grinding machine refinishing the inside of the drum surfaces, removing rusts lips around the edges which may have been causing the sticking which was my original problem.

Still no signs of welding whatsoever as claimed by Fiat, maybe they lied to me but why would they be so creative?!

Also watching the vid,
1) never work on a car supported by a widowmaker jack. Or any jack. Axle stands are a must.
2) the handbrake was stopping you car rolling, if your working on the back leave in gear, or ideal, chock the front wheels
3) the brake drum bolts/wheel locators are 12mm
4) the drum is cast iron, if your going to hammer it use a smaller hammer, big hammer +cast = cracks, and I've seen it done
5) if you look thru the wheel bolt holes, you'll see the adjuster. Back it off, drum will need minimal persuading
6) cable adjustment, on this side at least, is fine. Can see its on its stop
View attachment 169635
7) you didn't readjust the shoes, the knurled winder on the threaded bar. It want to be wound so the shoes are just kissing the inside of the drum.

My advise, buy some brake cleaner, take the drum back off and clean all the dust away. Where the shoes touch the backplate, pull the shoe away slightly and apply some appropriate grease (copper grease is perfect) if you get any on the friction material, clean it up. Use a bit of emery cloth to rough up the face of the shoes, and make sure the inside of the drum is clean and rust free. Make sure the adjuster is freely moving, put the drum back on and thru a bolt hole adjust it till the drum goes tight. Back it off a few clicks, til it's just free, and repeat on other side. As I said, the adjuster underneath the car is for setting the free play in the handle (no more than 1/2") and with both sides adjusted properly you should have 3-5 clicks on the handbrake

We're investing in a large jack and axle stands now as we've decided to weld a newly discovered rotten exhaust mount which was hanging on one side as there's even less chance of welding under a road side jack.

Thanks for your feedback and taking the time to watch the video, you're completely right in all those faults I made, but each one was solved tonight as my uncle was there even the smaller hammer to get off the drums. It seems to be sorted now, with some driving we'll see if the problem is truly gone.


General Update: Handbrake, sorted we think. It doesn't go high enough to feel like you're about to snap it off of the floor now, and with the movement is does have, the car is easily held on steep hills. No sign of welds, but a ridiculous use of a cable tie (attached). Cleaned up the drums and inspected the front brakes too. Plenty of 'meat' left on the pads and shoes all around.

We discovered a grinding noise, I've actually mentioned this before (even to Fiat) but nobody has found the cause. We think we did. An exhaust mounting is hanging off under the car, next to the long exhaust pipe. Clearly, it should be supporting it with the rubber element. My uncle reckons when he gets a welder we can solve this as the rubber is in good shape. That should hopefully solve that. (photos attached)

We also discovered, moving the car out of the garage that now when its started an alarming 2 long seconds of grinding / scraping / horrible metal noise comes on just after the car fires up and starts. He said it could be the starter showing signs of retirement... of course, we had been out for hours and packing up at this stage so god knows. Any way to tell if it is a starter problem? This one could be costly..

 

[SB1500]

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