Tuning improving grip on track?

[dac69er]

Done a few track days in my cinq and have found that the big thing letting it down is not the miniscule amount of power, but the lack of grip.

I have all new bushes, joints, arms etc. I have the apexi suspension kit and camber bolts. I have had the tracking done and run -1 degree neg camber.

My tires aren't the best, but there isn't much choice of anything any good in a 13" wheel. I have a set of 14" wheels, but with the size required, I am still stuck with little choice of anything performance.

Can anyone give me any advice on improving the grip on my cinq on track? I was getting 2cv's destroying me on the corners with their pram wheels and it was embarrassing!

 

[purf]

185 60 13 yoyo r888 tyres or something? The classic mini boys get by ok

 

[The Black Box]

Tyres. If on 13s 175/50/13 Yokohama a539 these will fit on standard cinq alloys. Can also get these in 14s depending on width but a 14x6 wheel can fit a 195/45/14 or a 185/50/14. (latter a bit cheaper) again Yokohama or can get uniroyals in 195/45. Grip won't be an issue with either of these. But I much prefer centos on 13" wheels

Also space out the front wheels a bit more to the back. Can also use pas top mounts (or the polish adj ones) for a bit more castor.

 

[dac69er]

i was trying to keep to a similar tire size to standard, but looking around, i dont think that is going to happen!

i reckon i will be going with spacers whichever way i go.

 

[rallycinq]

i was trying to keep to a similar tire size to standard, but looking around, i dont think that is going to happen!

i reckon i will be going with spacers whichever way i go.

nah....you just need better tyres..

175/50 x 13

http://www.yokohama-online.com/Tyres/Motorsports-Tyres/Road-Legal-Sports-Tyres/ADVAN-A048

Cheers

D

 

[Duncan]

Nankang also do a 175/50r13 track day tyre

 

[dac69er]

thanks lads. will have a look about and get some of them. just need to drop and stiffen the car a bit more to reduce the comical bodyroll

 

[purf]

Didnt the 2cv's have body roll?

 

[dac69er]

Didnt the 2cv's have body roll?

they did a little, but not much. they just gripped round the corners, which was the amazing thing considering the wheels and tires they were running!

i have attached a couple of pictures. one of my car and one of the 2CV, unfortunately there were no pictures of the 2cv going round any really hard corners

 

[X19 pilot]

Have you got a strut brace fitted? I found this improved the handling considerably for not a lot of outlay, albeit this was before I lowered and stiffened the suspension.

Upper and lower front braces are/were available, but the lower one reduces ground clearance considerably on an already lowered car, which was why I removed it and just kept the upper one.

 

[dac69er]

Have you got a strut brace fitted? I found this improved the handling considerably for not a lot of outlay, albeit this was before I lowered and stiffened the suspension.

Upper and lower front braces are/were available, but the lower one reduces ground clearance considerably on an already lowered car, which was why I removed it and just kept the upper one.

i have an omp upper front brace. a lower brace that i made (you can just see it in the pic above)
i have also braced the upper part of the the B and C pillars, the lower part between where the rear seats normally bolt and then cross braced that. have attached a pic minus the Cpillar brace i fitted just before the trackday

the handling itself is pretty decent. it was just the body roll and the lack of grip that let me down.

 

[LeonL]

Tires are most important on a track. If you want street tires get yoko's in 13 inch, of get some slicks.

step 2 bracing: stutbar, arb, rollcage. Pu bushes also realy helps. If you can get one find a rear sway bar, if not remove the front one.

 

[dac69er]

If you can get one find a rear sway bar, if not remove the front one.

remove the front one? surely that will make things even worse with the body roll!

i am going to look into getting some better tires just for use on the track. the only thing that puts me off is that a cost of 4 new track tires fitted is as much as the car is worth!!!

 

[purf]

I would try some used track tyres first off? I bought a set a couple of years ago on revolution wheels for £100. I think the more recent Nankang tyres are petty decent for the money but I dont do track days ?

 

[LeonL]

remove the front one? surely that will make things even worse with the body roll!

Yess the body roll will get a bit worse, depending on the shocks, but it wil increase grip at the front wheals

 

[leroya500]

Personally I used falken tyres on my race mini to great effect

 

[dac69er]

Yess the body roll will get a bit worse, depending on the shocks, but it wil increase grip at the front wheals

I'm getting bad understeer so the rear grip alone isn't the issue. the overall grip is fairly well balanced, it's just not very good

 

[dac69er]

I would try some used track tyres first off? I bought a set a couple of years ago on revolution wheels for £100. I think the more recent Nankang tyres are petty decent for the money but I dont do track days ?

I will have a look around. Finding them new is enough of a mission. Second hand probably isn't going to be easy!

 

[Metalguru3]

For me its the 175/50 x13 A539's all the way. I find I get neutral handling with a nice bit of oversteer on braking into a corner which I like. I've just put on a brand new set of 4 and there was no noticeable difference in handling from the old set which were nearly worn out, so I'm goung to put the oldies on a set of steels for the rougher events. Ive done nothing else to the car except fitted brembo pads which seem to work a treat.

I'm not bothered either way though about keeping them so if you're passing by Tamworth in the next couple of weeks you can have the old ones for a tenner each - you should get at least one event out of them maybe 2 if you've got a good relationship with the scrutineer and then you'll know if you want to lay out the £240 i've just paid out for the new ones.

After a couple of weeks I'll send them off on their way to the great tyre dump in the sky with a final autotest or 2.

I was thinking of parting with some more money for a Spax adjustable lowering kit and emptying out all the sound deadening material, but a friend has all this and more but runs on 14's and mine outperforms his - although he is a far superior driver than me so he can still beat me.

 

[dac69er]

the yokohama A539 is a bit more reasonably priced and it still a road tire. i will use the crappy ditch finders over the winter then swap them out for something like that as the track only tires can only really be used for track and i dont go often enough to make it worth it.