Tuning Imola finally gets boost 1242 8v mpi turbo info thread

[cc1]

You need to look at how the Ecu controls the 4 wire Marelli idle control valve.
I had to add a driver module for my Omex and use two fuel outputs to drive it.

 

[fingers99]

Mind you, I don't think either of the J333EVO/foxyemz cars used the IAC at all! (But neither used a FIAT TB.)

 

[cc1]

Mind you, I don't think either of the J333EVO/foxyemz cars used the IAC at all! (But neither used a FIAT TB.)

The MS appears to have only one output and quotes servo type idle valves as not currently supported. This throws a spanner in the works for using the standard TB.
I think most modern TB's use 2 or 4 wire systems these days?
This is why I did not go the MS route as It is a bit out of date with regard to hardware?
I think you need to fit ballast resistors for the low Z injectors which to me, is a bit of a bodge.
Another thing to check is the type of ignition coil that will be used. I'm not sure if the fiat ones are a high current type, so you may require an ignition amplifier module?

 

[fingers99]

All needs checking.

But, IIRC, the resistor thing was actually a factory fit on some Toyotas -- seems to work OK.

Everyone seems to read stuff on the early MS systems and assume that the later stuff is the same.

It ain't bleeding edge, but what do you need? Boost control, knock detection, some means of achieving an idle, and a way of mapping everything taking into account engine temp, inlet temp and pressure.

It's not rocket science.

 

[craigb244]

I disagree fingers. Ms "is" the cutting edge when you consider that usually if you request a feature it happens very quickly. The amount of development put into the ecu is amazing and must be worth billions in man hours. Something no after market ecu could EVER match.

And as far as documentation it's fantastic once you know where to look. And that becomes clear once you start physically working with the ecu (can be confusing and hard when your just researching the ecu without owning one)

And trust me I'm not biased. I've worked with omex and emerald ecu and would much rather use megasquirt which is far easier to integrate with oem sensors

 

[craigb244]

Also megasquirt does work is stepper motor iac and every other type of idle control... Straight out the box (although you do need to use two channels for a stepper motor... But no extra modules needed)

Is also works with high and low impedance injectors without anything extra (no ballast resistors) but all modern injectors are high and very unlikely to ever see a low (the spi fait injector is low impedance but if your fitting a after market ecu the. You shouldn't be using the spi)

 

[Lecook]

More reading and more research.. im going to go with megasquirt.. from what ive read and from videos ive watched its ALOT simpler then I first thought.. a quick youtube reveals plenty of good information and even complete playlists from 'building the box' to running the loom..aswell as some of the apps/software used to tube and calibrate everything.
A very informative video and plenty to take from this if you have a spare hour to kill (link courtesty of blu73, cheers buddy)

[ame]http://youtu.be/78pFqsrZfNY[/ame]

also this playlist

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLE1CU6EebvTBBO2_8eHF9ZVwAHJOXSbG

Im currently looking into exactly what system/setup I need so if anyone can point me in the right direction that would be appreciated..

Im thinking 4 cylinder semi sequential fuelling and wasted spark using 2 coils, 38psi map upgrade with launch control, switchable maps, and extra programable outputs for solanoid boost control and fan control.

From what ive seen its going to be an awesome bit of kit and as an added bonus the guy phil, from efi extra (uk ms supplier and builder ) is 15mins up the road from me in norwich (bonus )

Hopefully ill be able to get the ms ordered around January or February, after ive got the engine built up and into the car and the ic pipework ect done

Just a quick question I have... does the d4 connector become completely redundant?? If anyone has a pinout/wire color for what exactly does what in the d4 id be greatful

Cheers again

Lee

 

[cc1]

The D4 connects the engine loom to the main harness for fuel pump and dash signals. I suggest you keep it.
First thing to look at is the way the MS controls the ICV. A 4 wire motor will need 2 channels to drive a PWM motor controller module which will be an add on, or four channels for direct drive if available when using the standard Marelli ICV.
You need to know exactly what you require/need before you start to open your wallet. The MS is very good for what it offers without a doubt, but check every detail.

 

[Lecook]

I was looking at the ms2 specs on this site
http://www.msextra.com/feature-xref.html

basically I was thinking I need to order ms2 with all optional extras/optional hardware.. it says theres two pmw Idle and also supports 4wire stepper idle (with mod on v3.0)

I plan on sending plenty of emails to phil at efi extra before I place the order but as yet with xmas im not really in the position to place and order... so im looking at the moment mainly at exactly what I need to have in the ms2.. and ill worry about buying it around february

As far as the d4 goes I need to find out exactly what does what as ideally I want rid of it as I plan to tuck the engine loom as much as possible, possibly even completely rewire the front of the car..

Cheers
lee

EDIT: just a quick one to vairfy the type of crank sensor,, am I right in thinking standard cinq sensor is hall efferct or is it a vr?? Cheers again

DOUBLE EDIT: just read the megasquirt thread and can confirm a couple of people atleast say its a vr type crank sensor, 60-2 standard cento trigger wheel with 2 missing teeth can someone confirm please as there seems to be some outdated info on there?? Cheers

lee

 

[cc1]

The crank sensor is a VR type so generates it's own signal. No 5v supply. The trigger pattern is 60-2 teeth. If you are having the flywheel lightened, then put a new mark on it to show TDC. You need it to check the timing. The 2 missing teeth are about 14DEG BTDC.
I fitted a new type D4 to allow the engine loom to be taken out if it needs modifying in the future.
One thing that I do not like about the MS2, is the 37 way D type connector. They are not my idea of a connector for use in a harsh environment and not good for power applications.

 

[woj]

Yes, VR-type, 60-2 teeth.

While you are studying MS, why not read this too:

https://www.facebook.com/MegaSquirtSux

if only for the laughs (I did not find much substantial information there).

 

[cc1]

The worst thing with electronics is, when it goes wrong, you have no idea where to look for the problem because you don't have a clue to what you are doing. lol.
Reminds me of an average day at work. lol.

 

[craigb244]

Bloody hell woj who ever made that group really hates megasquirt and has to much time on their hands (maybe a ecu manufacturer maybe???)
Plus the faults they pick are sad. Like the fact they are taking the **** out of the fact it has an open loop boost control map and closed loop map... So what if it has a open loop map its just there incase someone needs it lol

 

[fingers99]

Apropos the crank sensor, OE is VR, but I remember Kristian (Kripit) talking about going to Hall Effect as said to be more reliable.

Too much reading is probably bad for you -- you might be better doing a decent, coloured wiring diagram with labels, rather than numbers you have to look up p.45 of the workshop manual and wiring colours with a black and white key in Italian(!) on p.50 -- Photoshop Light or Gimp will do just fine.

 

[craigb244]

I have a hall sensor for the crank sensor.

It's not needed but just makes the board more simple and can get a nicer signal from them (pure square wave rather then AC from a vr sensor)

 

[craigb244]

Here's a video I made

[ame]http://youtu.be/Yzp3TynQ7AY[/ame]

As you can see the hall sensor can detect tooth without even moving.
A vr sensor needs the wheel to be spinning at some rpm before it starts to work

 

[woj]

Bloody hell woj who ever made that group really hates megasquirt and has to much time on their hands (maybe a ecu manufacturer maybe???)
Plus the faults they pick are sad. Like the fact they are taking the **** out of the fact it has an open loop boost control map and closed loop map... So what if it has a open loop map its just there incase someone needs it lol

I in principle agree, and as I said, for the laughs. Having said that, I have to agree with one thing there. I did look at the MS C-code at some point - I have students that I teach write more clear and better documented code. This tells me a lot about what it can hide inside in terms of nasty bugs. And I really do not like the fact that the MS3 code is not released - this totally negates the whole idea of "open source".

 

[craigb244]

I understand but surely it's more to protect it from company using it for easy profit.
It's more or less the same as Apple. Based on open source software but is very closed source.

 

[fingers99]

I understand but surely it's more to protect it from company using it for easy profit.
It's more or less the same as Apple. Based on open source software but is very closed source.

Well, the whole Apple rip off Free BSD thing was because Free BSD has the "wrong" licence: whether this was by design, failure to agree on a new one, or plain inertia is up for debate.

The GNU General Public License has never been successfully challenged (linux, GNU software) which, 20 odd years on, must mean it's foolproof.

Someone isn't releasing their source code: this might mean they're ashamed of it, but more likely that they forsee a day when they can commercially exploit it (rather than make money out of "associated services").

 

[woj]

Whatever the reason is for me it defeats the purpose of using it (MS I mean). If I cannot see the code and tweak to my own needs there is no added value of MS over anything else, including factory ECUs (that I tweak anyhow, only lack of the code makes a tad more difficult ).

But let's keep this thread free of this rambling - it is about Lecook's turbo