Technical IAW ECU Live Mapping & Tech Info

[Aideym]

On Monday, I will firstly swap the Lambda sensor with another one I have. Check that the Fuel pressure regulator and pipe are ok and try and find the EVAP connector. I didn't swap the engine over so I don't know where about in the engine loom the connector would be (any ideas where to start looking)
After I do each stage I will retest the OBD.

If nothing changes I will check where the engine loom has been spliced into the Cinq loom for continuity.

Hopefully something will become apparent. If you don't mind I will post my progress in this topic for guidance.

Thanks Woj and Tzok

 

[Aideym]

I was just checking Maplin's website for resistors they have 3w 22ohm, 7w 22 ohm 10w 22 ohm, 0.6w 22ohm and just to be confusing 3 w 0.22 ohm.

Which would you recommend?

 

[woj]

I honestly do not remember which one I used. The valve itself uses probably around 12W (but this is from vague memory), but that does not mean you have to plug in the resistor rated that high, I'd say 7W should be enough.

But I'd really put this issue aside for the moment and resolve the lambda open loop issue first. I looked into the program of 18FD, and apart from obvious checks (like warm engine, appropriate load range, etc.) there is a check if the engine keeps the idle within limits. And this check does not have a very wide tolerance. 64 RPM over the target idle RPM and it will go into open loop mode, then it has to fall within 40 RPM limit of the target RPM to go into closed loop. I am guessing the enlarged TB could be an issue here (I have actually seen in it once on a 16V engine with Bravo 1.6 TB - the ECU was kicking in and out of closed loop all the time). So the question is - does it go into closed loop on a light throttle press.

I have not seen any other checks that would suggest what could be a problem in your case, but I will keep thinking

 

[woj]

Correction - the EVAP valve is more like 6W.

 

[Aideym]

Well here is the update on today's proceedings.

I fitted a replacement Lambda sensor and once the car was warm this seemed to work. It would go into closed loop and stay there except at idle where it was in and out all the time. I swapped the throttle body for the original ( which has a cracked plug,) and the Lambda behaved exactly the same, in and out at idle, so I put the Brava one back on as it is in better condition.

I did all the tests and resets available in IAW and everything passed.
I checked the plugs and reset the gaps

I still have the EVAP fault of course. I got the olld solenoid out of the shed but I cannot find anywhere to plug it in. I have spent hours scouring the loom for wires or a plug to no avail.
Woz, when you said the solenoid could be replaced by a resistor, would it be ok to splice it into wire 22 on the ECU?
I have the log files but it is too big to attach here, If you want them to look at I will have to email them to you.

 

[woj]

The "passing" of tests does not mean much (but I am not indicating that there is something wrong with the components in your engine, only what "passed" means), only that it was possible to execute the tests, for example, it will not tell that the injector is in fact squirting fuel, only that it reacts to pulses somehow.

But never mind, with the lambda and idle it is a kind of vicious circle, poor lambda will make the idle less steady, less steady idle will switch the lambda closed loop off. In general, a worn out lambda will be slow to react, its signal will be very wavy instead of very spiky.

I would not know where the EVAP plug is on the Punto loom, on a Cinq it is very close to the horn behind the bumper (the valve sits in the front of the gearbox). On the Sei it is probably inside the wing. Perhaps somebody cut it?

Yes, you can bridge the EVAP ECU pin (I'd double check if it is indeed number 22) with the ground pin.

 

[Aideym]

So today's progress report. The weather was pants, my gazebo garage is pants. Had to have a inspection lamp on all day. Oh for a workshop.

The mystery of the missing wires is now solved. I had to do quite a bit of digging in the loom but eventually the evap solenoid was fitted. I spent quite some time tidying up the wiring and getting it routed a little better.

However, now I can't get the software to play. Everything from the COM port going missing, unexpected crashes and messages about something that is connected not working.

The tickover is quite smooth now, aside from that I am going to have to get it connected to a gas analyser to see if the problem has gone away.
All this hassle isn't doing my cider dependency any favours

 

[woj]

Software problems with Windows are not my domain of knowledge, you have to rely on Mr. TzOk to help you out (my best guest would be that the COM port number got reassigned and you have to recheck where it is now). But, also, now I remember - one failed attempt to connect makes the ECU block for some minutes until you can try again (you can try again after you hear the main power relay tick off).

Let the engine run a bit after this, both on idle, but also on light throttle presses and also let it drive a bit (with light and mid loads, no point going full throttle, all lambda operation and calibration switches off then) while being well warm. Those autocalibration parameters have to settle in. And try not to disconnect the battery from the ECU, although IIRC this ECU does not forget autocalibration data so easy.

 

[TzOk]

Everything from the COM port going missing

So check in the Device Manager if the serial port associated with the cable is present. Maybe you've got on of these fake FT232 cables and it got killed by a Windows Update Driver. The port should be present when only you plug in the USB connector from interface to your computer. Also the cable has to be connected to computer before you start the IAW Scan 2.

 

[Aideym]

I suspect it is more to do with the laptop as it is ancient.
As a rule the programme recognised the ECU and was ok until the engine was started, then it would say than a something connected to the computer wasn't responding and it would quit.

Sometimes it would just quit unexpectedly. I certainly didn't get it to allow me to rev the engine without turning off.

Everything was fine yesterday and the day before, All I have done is connect the evap solenoid, which is clicking in and out and did pass the test.

It was very dark outside, I will see if something isn't connected properly tomorrow

 

[TzOk]

Some FTDI cables fail due to strong EM noise from the ignition system. Usually due to a poor HV circuit condition in the car.

 

[woj]

I had problems before with the 18FD ECU loosing connection for no apparent reason both in combat conditions as well as on my desk test setup (no vibrations and solid connections). And this was happening both with PC diagnostics software of mine connected with VAG-KKL cable as well as with my home build tester connected with hand-crafted KKL circuitry connected to ATmega chip. So I'd say there is something in this ECU causing it, hardware or software.

(My very very wild guess would be that now something is working in your ECU (lambda and/or EVAP control and/or autocalibration) that throws the CPU timing / interrupts off and connection is lost. I will repeat myself for probably a 100th time - I think this ECU is some developer's bad dream).

 

[woj]

Some cables fail due to strong EM noise from the ignition system. Usually due to a poor HV circuit condition in the car.

Ha, that would explain a lot. My own car had the diagnostics pins pulled with cables directly through the firewall to the inside and 12V taken from the cig. lighter. So far far away from HV elements. And never ever had connection problems.

 

[TzOk]

I've been examining this issue, and logs indicated that connection was lost due to serial adapter disappeared from the system, not due to communication/timing errors. After starting the engine the FTDI's virtual COM port driver crashes and device/COM port is no longer available, and thus my program also crashes.

 

[Aideym]

All these acronyms leave me confused.

How do I avoid the EM noise ( not sure what that is)
What is the HV system,
If the ECU is a nightmare, should I just go for a megasquirt instead?

 

[woj]

EM - electro magnetic
HV - high voltage

So essentially disturbances from the spark ignition system. I guess the only way to avoid it is to keep the VAG-KKL leads away from the coils and HV cables as much as you can.

And no, I'd suggest to stick with this ECU for now, I think making it run as it should is within reach, and MS is a whole other nightmare, especially in your case somebody would probably have to do it for you In the longer run, however, especially when you use the car for events, I'd probably consider a stand-alone system, but perhaps not necessarily MS.

 

[woj]

I've been examining this issue, and logs indicated that connection was lost due to serial adapter disappeared from the system, not due to communication/timing errors. After starting the engine the FTDI's virtual COM port driver crashes and device/COM port is no longer available, and thus my program also crashes.

Well, this still does not tell me why my ATmega based home made tester that does not even have FTDI and talks pure serial to the ECU also crashed on me several times with the 18FD (then again, the stability of this tester is also subject to my ATmega C-programming skills...)

I also only now noticed a GP in your avatar Are you a happy owner?

 

[TzOk]

ATmega running on its internal RC generator has very unstable UART communication. Also the bitrate used by old IAWs (7812.5bps) is out of RS232 specs, and hard to be precisely set either on ATmega (possible bitrates depend on a main clock rate) or on FT232 (closest possible is 7680bps).

Avatar is new, but actually I own a GP since quite a long time (over 5 years)...

 

[woj]

It's running on an external clock at 16MHz. And never had problems with it running on my own car's installation for very long periods of time. Only with the thing connected in the engine bay on a 16V and/or 18FD ECU (which I used a couple of times to run the 18F program on the 8V engine).

 

[Aideym]

Ok I understand.
I need to extend the lead to the OBD and run it through the cabin of the car, avoiding the HT leads and coils. I will try that.

The car is back in its' garage now until after Christmas. The exhaust manifold is away being aluminium coated and having a new cat put together to marry up to the exhaust system. I'm not sure if the cat was bad but having changed everything else I didn't think it would hurt to have a new one when the emission test is done.

Finally, I am interested in which aftermarket ECU you would choose because the only reason for having the car is for motorsport purposes. You are right that I would probably end up having someone do all the work.

I should have just thrown an R1 engine in it. I knew what I was doing with them.