General i like the bravos, help me decide if i want one
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General i like the bravos, help me decide if i want one
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Nope, in my country the sport grande punto was a 1.9 multijet 16v 150 bhp (advertized as 140hp for the reasons I mentioned previously). same engine, same power as the bravo, it also has the same 6 speed gearbox.
In the UK and most of europe the three door models are the cheaper, in my country it's the opposite, the top spec GP was available only in 3 door with all the options checked and a 150bhp multijet.
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You mean I've been driving my car for 4 years and 9 months, and never got into top gear
I'm 100% sure my car has only 5 forward speeds, as do all 1.9 Mjet 120s
You mean I've been driving my car for 4 years and 9 months, and never got into top gear
I'm 100% sure my car has only 5 forward speeds, as do all 1.9 Mjet 120s
Ah, so that's the trade off with the 1.6 120, you get a DPF, but also an extra gear and £30 a year road tax.
What is the big difference between having 5 gears or 6 gears? (And dont say one more gear ) I always thought having a 6th gear would be better for pulling at the top end and better too cruise in.
I'll let you know what the two version I test have once I've got them.
) I always thought having a 6th gear would be better for pulling at the top end and better too cruise in. I'll let you know what the two version I test have once I've got them.
What is the big difference between having 5 gears or 6 gears? (And dont say one more gear
I'll let you know what the two version I test have once I've got them.
Can make shorter gear ratios lower down.
What is the big difference between having 5 gears or 6 gears? (And dont say one more gear
I'll let you know what the two version I test have once I've got them.
Top gear is pretty much the same, 5 or 6 speed. I suspect that the 16 valve cars get more power and better fuel economy from smaller engines, but over a slightly restricted rev range, so need 6 gears to get the best out of them. Tad and I only need 5 gears
BTW, I filled up my tank yesterday, really brimmed it, got 51 litres in for 601 miles, 53.5mpg
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You're all wrong about the benefits of the six gear.
Having owned the multijet 1.9l 16v with 6 gear, the 1.6l with six gear and my 1.9l 8v bravo with 5 gear, I can tell you that the 6 gear gearbox is pure crap compared to the 5.
Here's why:
-The gears are harder to shift with the 6 gear especially the reverse gear.
-You spend your time shifting gears because the gear ratios are shorter, it's annoying in city driving
-Since you lose speed and time at every gear change, one less gear makes for better acceleration.
-Also not sure but all the sticking and noisy gear problems I read about lately on the forum are 6 gear, never heard of a 5 gear having issues.
- The sixth gear makes absolutely no difference in fuel consumption in real life conditions.
6 Gear would make sense in a petrol car, but It's absolutely stupid in a multijet with all its torque.
Having owned the multijet 1.9l 16v with 6 gear, the 1.6l with six gear and my 1.9l 8v bravo with 5 gear, I can tell you that the 6 gear gearbox is pure crap compared to the 5.
Here's why:
-The gears are harder to shift with the 6 gear especially the reverse gear.
-You spend your time shifting gears because the gear ratios are shorter, it's annoying in city driving
-Since you lose speed and time at every gear change, one less gear makes for better acceleration.
-Also not sure but all the sticking and noisy gear problems I read about lately on the forum are 6 gear, never heard of a 5 gear having issues.
- The sixth gear makes absolutely no difference in fuel consumption in real life conditions.
6 Gear would make sense in a petrol car, but It's absolutely stupid in a multijet with all its torque.
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ban1111
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the gears make a lot of difference, the 5th gear in both cars on the bravo ie 120 bhp and the 150 bhp models is around 30mph/per 1000 rpm. then on the 6th gear versions your top gear is around 35mph/per 1000 rpm, big difference. and at speed big difference in cruising.
120bhp model does 60mph at 2000 rpm, where as the 150bhp version does 70mph at 2000 rpm.
So it sure does make a difference in cruising mpg, if you were to fit the 6 speed box to a 120 bravo your mpg would be better at any speed above 60 mph..
Also the 6 gear model can handle far more torque than the 5 speed model, maybe you don't hear reports of failures of the 5 speed model because its max torque is pretty poultry for a diesel, at 188ft/LB of torque. even the punto grande with the same engine [1.9..120bhp] has the 6 speed box and indeed more torque than the bravo 1.9 120 bhp.
Diesel with their short rev bands compared to petrols cars benefit from having more gears after all it is in modern diesels where 6 gears became almost standardized across the whole sector, the only reason the bravo 1.9 120bhp got a 5 speeder with a shorter top gear was because otherwise the replacement 1.6 mjet that was already in the pipeline would not have looked such an improvement in the CO department and therefore bragging rights as being 10% more economical ..
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Nope, 6th gear is just a gimmick so that clueless people who look for a car don't discount fiat as a lesser car for having one less gear and it also helps with the stupid European bureaucracy that requires more fuel economy NUMBERS (not real life fuel consumption, just theoretical mpg numbers like you're referring to)
If more gears was a solution for performance and consumption we would all be using semi truck gear boxes with 12 gears.
I'm talking out of experience, and I wouldn't take a 6 gear diesel unless it's merc of bmw with over 250bhp
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cardinalbiggles
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With the genuine greatest respect, sorry but this is just plain inaccurate information on so many levels. Also, you would only take a 6 speed if it was on a Merc or BMW with 250bhp, why? Do you actually know how gearboxes work because that sounds like its just heresay you have plucked out of the air.
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I'd take a 6 speed in a powerful car because in that case you never get to the sixth speed in the city, it's only for highway speeds and it also helps with top speed.
With 6 speed in a small cars, you spend your time shifting between 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th because the ratios are so short.
You seem to think that the 6th speed is only an extra ratio that makes going down the motorway more economical, that's only the case in big cars with big gearboxes, in the bravo, they're actually splitting 5 perfectly sufficient gears into smaller ones.
I don't even need to go into technical details, it's the feeling and comfort of driving that count and I had plenty of experience with all the configurations available in multijet fiats to make my opinion. Have you?
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cardinalbiggles
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Em, point me to where I said that...
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Oh right, sorry it wasn't you... You actually didn't say anything constructive or explained your point of view, let alone advise the op. You just drop by to say someone is wrong for the sake of it.
With all the genuine greatest respect of course
Hello
If you are thinking of buying a Fiat, go do it. I had a Punto before Bravo and it was reliable and comfortable. Much better than my ex's Yaris. And even consumption was better. Regarding Fiat as a company or car manufacturer, as long as you service ANY car, it will be ok. If a battery goes, that can happen to any manufacturer. Although I have to say that on Fiat they use FIAMM batteries and the last one I had to change was after five years and that was due to cold weather -15C. The car did not want to start so I changed it just in case. Everything else as far as I know was super. My dad owned a Marea diesel which was reliable, also was my moms Panda. Since I will soon have to buy a new car, due to problems which could not be fortold in advance, I am looking on buying another Fiat, perhaps Croma with a multijet, since my Bravo will stay at home unregistered until further notice. If I had to choose between our company's BMW 1 1.9D or Volkswagen golf 6 1.4TSI , I would choose a Bravo with my eyes closed. I drive both of those German cars on daily bases and only perhaps Golf comes close to Bravo. But only by the light that comes through windshield. Both of german cars are at least for me uncomfortoble, loud and overhyped products,besides being overpriced.
If you are thinking of buying a Fiat, go do it. I had a Punto before Bravo and it was reliable and comfortable. Much better than my ex's Yaris. And even consumption was better. Regarding Fiat as a company or car manufacturer, as long as you service ANY car, it will be ok. If a battery goes, that can happen to any manufacturer. Although I have to say that on Fiat they use FIAMM batteries and the last one I had to change was after five years and that was due to cold weather -15C. The car did not want to start so I changed it just in case. Everything else as far as I know was super. My dad owned a Marea diesel which was reliable, also was my moms Panda. Since I will soon have to buy a new car, due to problems which could not be fortold in advance, I am looking on buying another Fiat, perhaps Croma with a multijet, since my Bravo will stay at home unregistered until further notice. If I had to choose between our company's BMW 1 1.9D or Volkswagen golf 6 1.4TSI , I would choose a Bravo with my eyes closed. I drive both of those German cars on daily bases and only perhaps Golf comes close to Bravo. But only by the light that comes through windshield. Both of german cars are at least for me uncomfortoble, loud and overhyped products,besides being overpriced.
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cardinalbiggles
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Oh right, sorry it wasn't you... You actually didn't say anything constructive or explained your point of view, let alone advise the op. You just drop by to say someone is wrong for the sake of it.
With all the genuine greatest respect of course
No you are wrong, the reason there are 6 speeds is to get closer gear ratios and they are usually found on cars you want increased economy from, or increased performance from. This is why the 120Mjet has a 5 speed box and the Sports have 6 speed boxes. Its simple, you want to accelerate more quickly you make it easier for your engine to shift the weight of the car, either decrease weight, increase power or change the gearing which is the easiest thing to do in mass production cars.
The argument about having to change more often is in my opinion mute. I have not noticed much of a difference with my 6 speed box, in fact being diesel you dont need to worry so much about shifting anyway!
By your logic we should still all be using 4 speed boxes like we used to (and indeed many automatics still do!)
I did mean it with the greatest respect, I am quite happy to admit (or be proved) wrong but I never knew how you would react, and you did react badly with your last rebuke.
ban1111
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Please, you are wrong on all accounts, firstly having a tall sixth gear does not help how do you put it those euro bureaucrats with gimmictkry fuel figures as sixth gear is too tall to be used on most of the fuel cycles, and only comes into its own at higher speeds, as i have already stated ie 60 plus mph with regards the Bravo diesels.. Its quite a simple thing to work out for most intelligent people again as explained before, but maybe i might make it a little easier given your lack of understanding,which is clear given your last statement, ie. bmw/merc over 250bhp, bla bla bla, which means nothing really without knowing the rev range of said cars and what gearing spread works best. so in simple english
bravo 5 speed at max torque 2000 rpm can travel at 60 mph.
bravo 6 speed at max torque 2000rpm can travel at 70 mph
for bravo 5 speed to also travel at 70mph it would have to rev at 2333rpm more revs means more fuel used and also being outside its max torque. and for best mpg it is a scientific FACT that in your torque range is where you get best MPG...sadly it would seem your experience and understanding isn't as great as you would have me and others believe, not trying to offend you but on the other hand your responses kinda insult my intelligent s, which might not be that great but mate its years above the kinda stuff you are trying to state as truth.....
As for the semi truck gearbox thingy? clearly you again don't understand the difference between a diesel engine and a petrol engine. and the fact that our 16 tonne Renault have 6 speed gearbox where as our merc 16 tonnes have 8 speed boxes, both have 260 bhp and both have near as dam it the same top gear ratio..you simply don't get it do you? its not so much how many gears you have as the gearing you have.
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Two words here: driveability and size
The only case where having a 6th gear wouldn't be beneficial over having a 5th gear is if the the ratio of said gears, mounted on the same engine, are exactly the same. This is relevant for highway cruising ONLY.
But theoretically, if speaking of the same engine, the 6 speed gearbox will always be better able to deliver optimum output regarding torque-speed. Why? because for each for each driving situation you need you need a specific gear ratio, and thats why CVTs were introduced. Thats why mercedes uses 7 speed boxes and are already developing 9 speed ones and BMW uses 8 speed gearboxes.
I havent checked the ratios of both gearboxes but probably the 6 speed one will cover a bigger range of gear ratios, And mind you, this makes all the difference for fuel economy, which is a huge factor nowadays. Otherwise we'd still be using 3 speed geraboxes, like cardinalbiggles mentioned.
What i mentioned was from an ideal point of view. Some people prefer to spend less time shifting (for that there are automatics). The 6 speed one might be less reliable but sure is more complicated.But there's simply no denying that more gears = better performance and fuel economy and less emissions. The future will only bring more gears, and dual clutch automatics will become more popular since pure Auto's are too complex and no-one wants to manually shift through 7-8 gears.
Sorry for the terribly long post
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I checked the ratios on eLearn.. On the 1.9 150hp, the first 5 gears are the same ratio as the 1.9 120hp, and 6th is an "overdrive". However, the final drive ratio on the 150hp is lower, so the overall ratio for 6th is higher than 5th on the 120, but the other 5 are all lower.
You can't go wrong with the 165. My only concern will be where to go from there as reports say that Fiat aren't planning on replacing the Bravo... It would be the end of the best small family hatchback on the market that is for sure. I also see now that they are only selling brand new with the 1.6 Multijet engine, is this right?
The Bravo is also the only car I have driven or come across that can actually achieve the mpg figures stated.
The Bravo is also the only car I have driven or come across that can actually achieve the mpg figures stated.
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