I called it - Petrol Ban ‘Delay’

[SB1500]

I’ve mentioned every time the EV topic came up, that closer to the time they will delay the date. This is my theory given the impracticality, expense and unaddressed environmental concerns of EVs being mass adopted. Of course, it’s always been just that my own theory / opinion - and hope - over what might happen. Nobody knows for sure and things do change.

But I didn’t see it being brought up for debate this soon:

UK ban on petrol and diesel car sales postponed to 2035 | Auto Express

Prime Minister Sunak rows back on Boris Johnson’s 2030 ban, saying ‘it’s not right to impose the cost on working people’

www.autoexpress.co.uk

I’m very happy about this. I think it’ll be delayed again further unless some real miracles happen in the technology.

Ideal outcome: it gets delayed to 2050 again - which let’s face it is the only realistic target as it stands today for such an ambitious goal, such a steep infrastructure change and discovery of a plant friendly sustainable mass production plan for these things. Perhaps from now until then some real innovation will happen.

And that the rest of the world’s manufacturing which won’t focus on EV tech will be able to sell their engine cars to the UK market for a long time to come. Given that most of the world which is lesser developed have much more important concerns than an EV grid, which even for us is a huge cost and struggle to achieve. Companies like Toyota and the like are wise enough to know that they can’t abandon ICE altogether. So there is hope we have engine cars (albeit hybrids and more efficient models) for decades to come.

Anybody else happy about this? 2030 deadline by Boris was certainly just a headline to make them look aggressively green, but is pie in the sky.

 

[portland_bill]

100% electric can't happen unless a different battery tech becomes viable. There just isn't enough lithium on the planet. And, so far we do not seem to have a viable recycling process for used lithium batteries.
New electric cars carry a huge carbon footprint, greater than an equivalent ICE vehicle, needing around 70-80 thousand miles before it becomes 'greener'.

I'd noticed recently, most of the telly ads for new cars are pushing hybrids. That might be significant.

Geely, a Chinese company big in electric cars, and owners of Volvo and Polestar, have recently announced a joint venture with Renault, to build a new ICE engine factory in the UK.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Im glad someone is happy. Perhaps if it went nad in hand with a ban on the sale of any passenger car with more than 50Hp I could agree, but that is just to difficult for these morons to see, We need petrol power but we do not need gas guzzlers or high powered cars. There ars so many things that are blaringly obvikous that could be done but they com e up with a u turn on the originally ill considered time table, WHat I wonder is the argument for all teh proposed lithium mining they wish to encourage now? SOmeone should sort these morons out. Vote for them??? Id rather eat sewage for the rest of eternity,

 

[portland_bill]

Im glad someone is happy. Perhaps if it went nad in hand with a ban on the sale of any passenger car with more than 50Hp I could agree, but that is just to difficult for these morons to see, We need petrol power but we do not need gas guzzlers or high powered cars. There ars so many things that are blaringly obvikous that could be done but they com e up with a u turn on the originally ill considered time table, WHat I wonder is the argument for all teh proposed lithium mining they wish to encourage now? SOmeone should sort these morons out. Vote for them??? Id rather eat sewage for the rest of eternity,

An alternative use for the sewage, ferment it, collect the gas, use it to power an ICE vehicle. Might need a lot of sewage for only a little gas.

 

[The Panda Nut]

An alternative use for the sewage, ferment it, collect the gas, use it to power an ICE vehicle. Might need a lot of sewage for only a little gas.

I have another use for it but I cant publish that or I would doubtless be breaking the law.

 

[The Panda Nut]

100% electric can't happen unless a different battery tech becomes viable. There just isn't enough lithium on the planet. And, so far we do not seem to have a viable recycling process for used lithium batteries.
New electric cars carry a huge carbon footprint, greater than an equivalent ICE vehicle, needing around 70-80 thousand miles before it becomes 'greener'.

I'd noticed recently, most of the telly ads for new cars are pushing hybrids. That might be significant.

Geely, a Chinese company big in electric cars, and owners of Volvo and Polestar, have recently announced a joint venture with Renault, to build a new ICE engine factory in the UK.

Hybrid is a no brainer, and PHEV hybrid even better. Reduce fossil fuels by efficiency immediately. This could be done now and could have been dom=ne years ago. SMaller engines thinner tyres, smaller brakes legislating on max weights etc all easy but no we cant even manage that. I hope the whole lot of them are flooded out and made homeless, Maybe then they would act. ALl this guff squeezing diesel out of the market has not helped either. LPG being unavailable / withdrawn is also stark raving mad when we should be aiming to reduce our impact by all means available.

 

[SB1500]

There also isn't enough emphasis on the fact that EVs aren't emission free, they're emission free-at-the-tailpipe. Meaning, instead of no fossil fuel being burnt in the car itself, it's burnt at a massive power station and travels (with some inevitable loss) to the charger point, with a lot of loss along the process. They defer emissions, not remove them entirely.

As @portland_bill mentions too, there isn't enough lithium, period, to build enough. Let alone... sustainably, or without poor labour practice and all that..

I have doubts over the lifespan. As long lasting and fast charging and durable as lithium batteries have gotten, they still have a very limited number of total lifetime charge cycles and they do reach the point of just simply not working without being plugged in, how useful is that in a car? At least 25 year old, dying petrol cars can still go far on a full tank... No good on a 30k+ lawn ornament.

EVs from a decade ago - Vauxhall Ampera, Renault Zoe, Nissan Leaf, they're all going for next to nothing now with like 60 mile ranges left - best case scenarios... no thanks.

 

[portland_bill]

I have another use for it but I cant publish that or I would doubtless be breaking the law.

It could be 'gifted' to the 'just stop oil' protesters.

 

[bugsymike]

Given that we have over 400 years worth of coal in the ground, I vote for steam engines

 

[SB1500]

Given that we have over 400 years worth of coal in the ground, I vote for steam engines

That’s all reserved for China… but don’t worry, the Paris Climate thing is going to make sure we all cut back - and if so cull private car ownership - here in the West to make it all work!

 

[bugsymike]

That's right no private cars, just private jets for politicians because they are worth it .

 

[SB1500]

That's right no private cars, just private jets for politicians because they are worth it .

I know, Sadiq Khan and his UN Climate conference recently… good on him choosing to wind-sail across to avoid burning fossil fuel …. oh wait

 

[vexorg]

I'm struggling to see how the delay will help the country now, or why the delay would cost money, or save money.

How does all this help the current cost of living crisis???
At the rate we are going, no one will be able to afford a car anyway by 2030.

I personally don't believe modern cars make any noticeable difference to air quality, they've had the pollution beaten out of them with all the new standards. There must be more CO2 and toxic gases emitted by the average cyclist than car on the same journey.

 

[porta]

One of the companies is investing research into glass salt water batteries…it’s not new technology, been around since Victorian times, a Japanese firm in 1910 made an electric car that drove 400m on one charge. I know it may seem to be counterintuitive on the weight issue, but it’s not glass as we know it and it’s not as a liquid.
As previously said, lithium is finite and highly energy dependent to extract and refine, and that’s on top of the environmental destruction, never mind the energy sources used to charge the bloody things.
As for long term EVs, why the hell are we making huge SUV types that do 0-60 in three seconds, with stupid top speeds and much reduced ranges!

 

[The Panda Nut]

Small cars less than 1 litre, less than 1 ton and less than 50Hp would do transport. They would drastically cut emissions and fuel use this could be in place without costing US the normal users their life savings and bankrupting the world. This afternoon if they / we chose to do so. Allow a fraction more flexibility for hybrids and insist in on real world economy of 77mpg. All achievable. Scrap any car with defects causing emissions and all MOT failures. Reinstate railways and make the car parks free. The get on with improving all the other things that cause global warming like electrical items. Stop buggering around with heat pumps and make sure every home and office in the lad is fully insulated. Work on more efficient heating boilers. Implement community heating schemes in all new estates and flats and the like.

 

[portland_bill]

As for long term EVs, why the hell are we making huge SUV types that do 0-60 in three seconds, with stupid top speeds and much reduced ranges!

Batteries are heavy, and expensive. They are easier to 'hide' in larger cars, hence mostly SUVs.
A problem I have found in many EVs is the lack of seat height in the rear. The battery is sandwiched between an upper and lower floor. They cannot lower the bottom floor, as it will be too close to the ground, so the inner floor rises. With cars made a similar height to their ICE equivalents, the seat ends up being closer to the floor. Fine in the front, as our legs go forwards, but in the back, the front seat is in the way. Passengers end up with their knees raised, and all their weight on their bum, none on their thighs. Makes more than a few minutes uncomfortable. SUVs allow the seats to be raised to 'normal' height, although not all have done so. Some SUV EVs have merely raised the whole vehicle, leaving the low rear seat. So we have a lot of enormous vehicles, suitable only for children in the rear.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Oh dont forget to make farting illegal and shoot people found to have wind. Bury the bodies down sealed mine shafts and outlaw cremation. Oh deers tory MPs are all full of hot air...... Carbon capture)

 

[porta]

Batteries are heavy, and expensive. They are easier to 'hide' in larger cars, hence mostly SUVs.
A problem I have found in many EVs is the lack of seat height in the rear. The battery is sandwiched between an upper and lower floor. They cannot lower the bottom floor, as it will be too close to the ground, so the inner floor rises. With cars made a similar height to their ICE equivalents, the seat ends up being closer to the floor. Fine in the front, as our legs go forwards, but in the back, the front seat is in the way. Passengers end up with their knees raised, and all their weight on their bum, none on their thighs. Makes more than a few minutes uncomfortable. SUVs allow the seats to be raised to 'normal' height, although not all have done so. Some SUV EVs have merely raised the whole vehicle, leaving the low rear seat. So we have a lot of enormous vehicles, suitable only for children in the rear.

I don’t mean the little SUVs I mean the behemoths that seem to be taking over round here. I appreciate height needed to accommodate batteries but, with more emphasis on range rather than 0-60 and top speed, you can go further for less.
I’ve a big 4x4 for towing and loading, as a farmer, but these huge things are being used on the school runs and, for me, haven’t the towing weight or range that would actually make them practical

 

[SB1500]

tory MPs

I think all MPs are, but I must say, if the other party was in I think they’d double down on these nonsense ‘green’ taxes on the working and the poor

 

[vexorg]

Nonsense green taxes... while they allow the rivers and beaches to be polluted with raw sewage and other waste, double standards there