Hi all, i recently got a great deal on a set of Cesam-Sport Roadsters for my Cinq. I took them to my local tyre fitter with a set of 5mm spacers (the et of the alloys were 35). He advised me that i would probably need hub centric spacers instead, to properly balance the wheels (i might feel the car shudder at certain speeds). Anything over 45mph now the car shakes! I need to know where i can get a good set of these (as i like to drive slightly ahead of the car in front), anyone have any suggestions as to quality and price...?
General Hub Centric Spacers
- Thread starter stefunko
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General Hub Centric Spacers
H&R = quality/pricey
What size are the wheels?
Have you read the FAQ's?
If they are 14" with an ET of 35 I would go to Fiat and buy standard fit Seicento Abarth 10mm front spacers, they are about £35 for a pair and being made by Fiat perfect. Fit these to FRONT only as per the Sei's fitted with them as standard.
If the wheels are 6" wide I'd fit the 3mm spacers you had on the front as standard on Cinq Sportings on the back and you'll be fine. If you don't have a sporting the spacers as easy enough to come by.
Have you read the FAQ's?
If they are 14" with an ET of 35 I would go to Fiat and buy standard fit Seicento Abarth 10mm front spacers, they are about £35 for a pair and being made by Fiat perfect. Fit these to FRONT only as per the Sei's fitted with them as standard.
If the wheels are 6" wide I'd fit the 3mm spacers you had on the front as standard on Cinq Sportings on the back and you'll be fine. If you don't have a sporting the spacers as easy enough to come by.
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I've found both on my Cinq and Sei that 6mm spacers are fine and that there is still enough of the hub centre left to properly centre the wheel on. The Cinq should have 3mm spacers on as standard, are you sure you've not put 5mm spacers put on top of the stock spacers making a total of 8mm?
Don't know these wheels. As above, but I wonder if there's an issue with the centre bore: (the sticky out bit of the hub which engages with the middle of the wheel and both centralises the wheel and takes all the up and down load)?
Should be 58.1 (nominally -- some folk say 58).
If so, the Tweeks catalogue lists centre bore adaptors (I know, it's a pain to use, but they are in there somewhere!) which should suit the FIAT spacers (as J333EVO suggests) which are a hell of a lot cheaper than H & R.
Should be 58.1 (nominally -- some folk say 58).
If so, the Tweeks catalogue lists centre bore adaptors (I know, it's a pain to use, but they are in there somewhere!) which should suit the FIAT spacers (as J333EVO suggests) which are a hell of a lot cheaper than H & R.
Hi all, thanks for your input, i'll answer in order... Brooky : H&R are expensive so i may need to forget about this (for now anyway). J333EVO : The wheel size is 13" / 5.5 / PCD 98 / et 35, i have read the FAQ's thats how i managed to work out the spacer required, maybe i am missing something, my Cinq is a Sporting model. GoBe : The 5mm spacers are the only spacers on there at the moment. Fingers99 : The wheels can be found at www cesam-sport.com under 13" wheels, they are called Roadsters. The hubs are fine as i was able to go flat out on the original alloys without any shaking. I understand that if i get 5mm spacers with PCD 98 and centre bore of 58.1 that these could be regarded as hubcentric??? I am finding it difficult to get 5mm hubcentric spacers as anything less that 10mm dont require hubcentric. If you can add any other information it would be greatly appreciated, Thanks!
Crazy French web site doesn't open properly! Ah, here it goes:
Entraxes (must be PCD) 4 X 098 Déports (probably ET) 32 Alésages (no idea!) 73.0
Anyhow. Are you French?
Check the counterbore. Place a rear wheel on its hub without bolts. Hold it flat. If you can more it up and down, chances are that the counterbore is wrong. (Or measure with a digital caliper.) If the counterbore is wrong, that's your problem. You must either fit a counterbore adaptor (sometimes called centre rings) or get the bore in the wheel machined -- failure to get this right may result in a wheel coming off, because it puts all the loads through the wheelnuts, and this isn't what they're designed for. Demon Tweeks will probably have some.
If they are 32 et, not 35, you need 3mm less spacer up front. You can probably get away without a rear spacer. Obvious source is a spacer from an Alfa 155, from your local Alfa dealer or a scrap yard. If from a scrappy, get the wheel bolts and the spire bolts which locate the disk while you're there. They're the right counterbore and pcd.
You won't find, I think, hubcentrics (which have a little stub to carry on the counterbore) in less than 10mm. You will find some with the right counterbore and pcd.
Entraxes (must be PCD) 4 X 098 Déports (probably ET) 32 Alésages (no idea!) 73.0
Anyhow. Are you French?
Check the counterbore. Place a rear wheel on its hub without bolts. Hold it flat. If you can more it up and down, chances are that the counterbore is wrong. (Or measure with a digital caliper.) If the counterbore is wrong, that's your problem. You must either fit a counterbore adaptor (sometimes called centre rings) or get the bore in the wheel machined -- failure to get this right may result in a wheel coming off, because it puts all the loads through the wheelnuts, and this isn't what they're designed for. Demon Tweeks will probably have some.
If they are 32 et, not 35, you need 3mm less spacer up front. You can probably get away without a rear spacer. Obvious source is a spacer from an Alfa 155, from your local Alfa dealer or a scrap yard. If from a scrappy, get the wheel bolts and the spire bolts which locate the disk while you're there. They're the right counterbore and pcd.
You won't find, I think, hubcentrics (which have a little stub to carry on the counterbore) in less than 10mm. You will find some with the right counterbore and pcd.
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'Alésage; [action] reaming; bore' so 73mm centre bore? It'd explain the reason for the 'hub centric' spacers, but you'd be better of with spigot/centralising rings
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Yeah. Crazy way to do it. Relatively simple job for someone with a lathe to turn some up (and do the front ones as combination spacers).
Going back a step or two, I have universal spacers on the front of mine. I don't experience any wheel wobble, but I took my time when fitting them. There are two disc retaining bolts, I have my spacers under these. You can quite accuratly centralise the spacers on the hub by feel, then use the two bolts to lock the spacer in place, then fit the wheels. This should take out any movement in the spacer and hopefully eliminate any wobble.
It isn't movement of the spacer that causes the wobble, it is movement of the wheel if it isn't held central by the centrebore.
The 4 wheel bolts will do a very effective job of centralising the wheel by themselves, you can see this when using thick non-hubcentric spacers. Using just 4 bolts its very difficult to have a wheel off centre.
But what I meant was that universal spacers can move before you clamp the wheel onto them, so its very possible for the spacer (with very large clearance holes) to move off centre, and this can cause the wobble that the OP mentioned. I doubt very much that the wheel being off centre would cause a wobble at 40mph, it would more that likely throw the car off the road.
I've found that the main problem is when using universal spacers with wobbly bolts, it's very easy for the wheel not to be centralised on the hub. Hubcentric spacers and spigot rings (if necessary) are essential IMO when using wobbly bolts.
Yes, but if the wheel spacers exceed the step out of the hub (or the wheel does not locate via the counter bore on the hub) then the wheelnuts are taking the load in two directions. This is potentially lethal.
I understand what you're saying, but if the counter bore here is 74mm, you could have chosen a better place to say it!
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balidey, as you said the wheel nuts/bolts do a good job of centralising the wheel on the hub, however they're far from perfect & may not centre the wheel properly if there is no centre bore contact between the hub/wheel. Secondly without that contact they may let the wheel wander around centre by a small amount due to load flexing of the bolts/studding. Both of those can cause wobble at lowish speeds which can turn into something quite uncontrollable at motorway speeds.
Exactly.
The wheel bolts are not there to support the weight of the car, the centrebore should be doing that.
Okay, i know the PCD is 98 and et35 how do i measure the centerbore of the wheels? I am sure these were made specifically for fitting Fiat cars. I am gonna try better 5mm spacers that are non universal with the correct centerbore and hope this works. Please keep the suggestions coming as i need to get back on the motorway, soon!!!
sorry a little bit off the subject but are people putting additional spacers on top of the original 3mm spacers i.e GoBe stated he has 6mm at the front, is that one spacer at 6mm or 2 original 3 mm spacers. if so is that safe.
thanks
Ricky
thanks
Ricky
OK, the centrebore is the bit of the hub that sticks out toward the wheel. (The sort of circle that is around the hub bolt). Measure the outside diameter of this. Should be 58 (or 58.1) depending on tolerances that day.
This should match the bore abutting the hub on the wheel. If it doesn't, it needs sorting. I can't stress how serious/important/life threatening this is enough.
You remember we were talking of hubcentrics earlier? Well, the reason you need those with big spacers is that, were you to use a 25mm spacer which did not have the protrusion on the hub carried forward, you'd effectively be running without any counterbore at all. For anything up to 10mm you're OK with spacers with the same counterbore as the wheel and the right PCD.
Dunno what GoBe runs, but 2 x 3mm would be fine. 1 x 6mm would be better (Alfa 155 front spacers are about 6mm). It really depends on the spacers being the right PCD and counterbore, and the counterbore on the hub being able to engage with the wheel.
