Technical Hill Start Control

[WoollyPanda]

I just wondered if anyone has the Hill Start Control fitted to their Panda. Mine came as standard on mine, its a TA Duologic. I certainly wouldn't have paid extra for it, but now I have it, I'd like to know anyone elses experiences with it.
I find that when it works, its very good BUT it feels like the its ability to sense when its on a gradient isn't sensitive enough. In the handbook they list what the angle has to be before it engages (I can't remember what it is) but it seems to allow it to roll on more occasions than I experienced when driving a Ford Fiesta in exactly the same conditions a little while ago.
Before anyone jumps in with the inevitable "you should know how to drive without it", I would turn it off if I could! Thankfully it still has a conventional hand-brake, unlike the Ford which was fully automated, but at least it worked as it should.
I'm guessing that there isn't any way to turn up the sensitivity of the system?

 

[deeyup]

I like it. The car will roll back on very slight slopes but other than that it's great.
I have it on my VW too and it works just as good on both cars.

Since you're driving a duo logic , can you not use your left foot to brake during the times when the car might roll back?

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

I have this on my 4x4...

Hill Holder operates on gradients over 5% (about 1 in 12), but only if you...

• come to rest with foot on brake
• depress clutch and leave in gear, or select neutral and take foot off clutch (but leave brake on)
• and do not use the handbrake.

On lifting foot from footbrake, it will hold you for two seconds before releasing (or sooner if you pull away before then)

It is cancelled if you use the handbrake when stopped.

 

[gar074]

I thought it would be a waste of time, but actually it's quite useful (there are some hills in East Anglia!) and it seems to work well, once you realise that it cuts out after a few seconds.

 

[WoollyPanda]

I have this on my 4x4...

Hill Holder operates on gradients over 5% (about 1 in 12), but only if you...

• come to rest with foot on brake
• depress clutch and leave in gear, or select neutral and take foot off clutch (but leave brake on)
• and do not use the handbrake.

On lifting foot from footbrake, it will hold you for two seconds before releasing (or sooner if you pull away before then)

It is cancelled if you use the
handbrake when stopped.

Thanks for the info. As I said, I think it works well if you're on a gradient that exceeds the required 5% (1 in 20 actually!) but I feel that it should be lower, say 3%, as I find it doesn't engage in slopes that are significant enough to cause the car roll back as soon as the brake is released.
As such, I just end up using the hand brake as I've always done. Sadly, it seems like another example of Fiat not being able to get things quite right with modern technology that other manufacturers don't have a problem with.

 

[aussiepanda]

I also think it should engage on lower slopes, it's damned silly to find yourself having to control roll back when you've got a system intended to prevent it.

There's an intersection I drive through (and inevitably get caught at) every afternoon. If I'm at the front of the queue, the hill start holds. One car back, it doesn't. Damned silly and it's a pity because it's a function I like. Besides, if they want us to use the handbrake, designing one you can rather than the fool of a thing they've put in the Panda would be a good start.

 

[babbo_umbro]

Works fine for me (in hilly Devon or Umbria)

 

[Calomax]

We’ve only had our City Cross since Tuesday and I’ve only tried it twice. I prefer to trust handbrake starts. But when I’ve tried it I’ve stopped on the hill then taken my foot off the brake. It then holds for probably half a second then releases and the car rolls back. Am I using it wrong or is it faulty?

 

[gloomyandy]

It will release after a short while, but it is normally longer than half a second, according to my manual it should hold for 2 seconds and should then release.

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

It will release after a short while, but it is normally longer than half a second, according to my manual it should hold for 2 seconds and should then release.

It will hold for up to two seconds, but releases as soon as you try to pull away, so can be shorter. Note: it also releases (or doesn’t engage at all) if you so much as touch the handbrake.

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

Calomax Note 2: you have to KEEP your foot on the footbrake for the full time you are stationary. Only release the footbrake (and transfer your foot to the accelerator) as you let the clutch up when you want to pull away. It is not a substitute for the handbrake and not intended to hold you still on a hill - the system is only to make hill starts easier by stopping you rolling back before the clutch bites fully.

 

[Calomax]

Thank you, that’s what I’ve been doing wrong. I misunderstood the handbook instructions. Easily done.

 

[Jerseywurzel]

Oh wow, another feature I didn't know much about, thanks! Tried it today in slow moving traffic uphill, works a treat [emoji41]

Calomax Note 2: you have to KEEP your foot on the footbrake for the full time you are stationary. Only release the footbrake (and transfer your foot to the accelerator) as you let the clutch up when you want to pull away. It is not a substitute for the handbrake and not intended to hold you still on a hill - the system is only to make hill starts easier by stopping you rolling back before the clutch bites fully.

 

[JayAre]

Hill Holder operates on gradients over 5% (about 1 in 12), but only if you...

• come to rest with foot on brake
• depress clutch and leave in gear, or select neutral and take foot off clutch (but leave brake on)
• and do not use the handbrake.

sorry to resurrect an old thread but I have serious issues with this “feature”:

#1 I dunno how it works (therefore I don’t understand what harm/premature wear it could cause to the clutch +anything else? )
#2 “depress clutch and leave in gear” - I’ve read elsewhere in the forum not to do this (unless you like paying for new clutches) +HonestJohn thread says similar: https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=18092
#3 I spent years perfecting my hand/foot control/coordination using the ‘traditional handbrake method’, so not keen to endure grief trying to master a new process to do what I can already do just fine
#4 safety (Highway Code?) says apply h/brake immediately on coming to a halt on a hill - I can’t argue with that +I suspect insurance companies might penalise drivers who don’t if there was a “mishap”..
#5 putting the car in neutral and holding on the footbrake kinda defeats the “easier” pitch?
#6 also (#5) pretty sure the Highway Code prohibits this anyway (dazzling drivers behind)

I have tried to use it but I failed miserably to master the specific sequence of actions required, say, in an uphill queue of traffic waiting to turn right. So, for me, it’s a “feature too far” and if it ever malfunctions I do hope that it’s not an MoT failure item…

 

[Marcus Daly]

I'm with you, I've never figured it out, nor got the hang of it. My "muscle memory" for a traditional hill start is too ingrained to overcome.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Thanks for the info. As I said, I think it works well if you're on a gradient that exceeds the required 5% (1 in 20 actually!) but I feel that it should be lower, say 3%, as I find it doesn't engage in slopes that are significant enough to cause the car roll back as soon as the brake is released.
As such, I just end up using the hand brake as I've always done. Sadly, it seems like another example of Fiat not being able to get things quite right with modern technology that other manufacturers don't have a problem with.

I have Hill holder and while its not a necessity its quite ueful especially if pulling out of a side road into traffic at an accute angle. One less thing to concentrate on. Any hills the hill holder doesnt work for I find its unnecessary for, and just moving off can be achieved without rolling back. Its probable that the sesnitivity is set to avoid its activating when it would be inappropriate. I make use of it occasionally but personally I dont want any nannying from such systems. Down side is its something else to go wrong. In this there are clealry differing opinions. I was in an HH equipped car last week and wanted to back it down a kerb very slowly. Hill holder intervened and made this impossible. I suppose this is possibly why its not more sensitive.

 

[JayAre]

It would be good if anyone can answer the Qs I raised:
- how does it work??
- what wear +tear does it cause the clutch? (it cannot be good holding the clutch pedal down, which I’m sure most who use it will be doing)
- agree with @The Panda Nut: when (not if!) it malfunctions is it an MoT failure ?

 

[Rambling7325]

Personally I'm a big fan. You don't have to use it if you don't like it. It works the same way auto hold works in lots of modern cars and the best thing about it is it is purely software, no extra hardware involved and therefore no extra hardware to go wrong. I believe all that happens is it uses the already existing abs to apply the brakes. Re the clutch, you can just put it in neutral and it still works after going back into gear.

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

No, not a Mot failure (not sure how or why it could be, by the way)
No, you do not need to keep the clutch down (and never should when stationary, in any car - a recipe for release bearing failure).
It works by keeping the brake on for no more than 2seconds after you lift your foot if it, or less if you pull away before then. All it’s doing is retaining pressure in the brake lines via the ABS pump.
Hill holder will only take effect on a gradient - not level or near-level ground, and can work when reversing up a hill as well as driving forwards.
Common on all modern cars now - so well tested and well-proven.
If you apply the handbrake, Hillholder does not operate.
And, if you do a ‘good’ hill start using the clutch and brake pedal ‘as normal’ you should never even notice Hill Holder is there

 

[Panda IIs]

@JayAre I think you are overthinking this Just drive as you would "normally" the hill hold function just gives a little extra "brake on" time between foot off the brake and rolling backwards or forwards when you are stationary on a hill; it adds some hysteresis (maybe latency or delay is/are better descriptors?) to the brakes releasing. Try playing with it on a quiet (sloping) bit of road, stop dead with foot on brake, release brake and observe the two second dwell with brakes on - then the car rolls. As stated already there is a point at which it does not engage (shallower slopes). It's really a lazy mans (persons) hill start.