Technical Hill Holder Fault

[percymon]

Have an issue wth the hill holder operation - the hill holder warning light occassionally illuminates for a few seconds, other times it can come on for 10 minutes, and then the light goes off again. Acceleration, braking and steering inputs have no influence on when its on or off. When the light is off the hill holder does not function anyway.

Thought this might in some way be linked to the replacement of the engine ecu recently, but the other half says she has seen it flicker from time to time before then, so i guess that one's out. When the ecu failed, the car was towed on a trolley by the AA, so back wheels free rotating, and front stationary on the trolley - when i first looked at the car after that, the hill holder and engine management lights were permanently illuminated and no codes came up on the OBD other than the throttle position (ecu) fault.

Does anyone know if there are any specific OBD fault codes for the hill holder system ?

Any idea how it operates ? - presumably theres a tilt sensor somewhere ?

Thanks.

 

[pandasam]

i dont know how these systems operate but i know that towing companies have specific guidelines for towing vehicles with auto transmission, although im not sure of these either.

are you sure it had a hill holder function?


id do some research on the internet to work out how these systems work, or just enquire with a fiat mechanic and see if he can get you some "free" information as to what you need to look for?

 

[doctorchris]

My Panda Cross has the hill holder function and, although I've never had any warning lights, I didn't believe that it worked.
Only a few days ago, while researching a possible new car for my son, did I learn a little about the function of these systems. I think we were looking at the Seat Ibiza and I realised that a hill holder maintains braking for a couple of seconds after you lift your foot from the brake and press the accelerator pedal. The Panda handbook does not explain this and I've never had the advantage of the hill holder working as I always apply the handbrake on a hill, releasing it as I apply acceleration. Maybe I'll try the system out one day, on a gentle hill with no other cars behind me.
As to how the system actually operates, I would imagine it uses the ABS system which will know when the car is stationary and can keep the brakes applied. I doubt whether there is a tilt sensor, the system probably still operates if the car is level or pointing downhill but as it only operates for a brief period it is not apparent in these situations.

 

[Sammyboy]

My Panda and 500 has hillholder and it's a fantastic piece of technology. I made my Mom have ESP on her 500 and told her how great the hillholder is, however she thinks it holds too long and hinders progress. I think it's her age

Hillholder really is brilliant especially on the Cross. I took one off road and the hill hold function can be really handy

 

[gwat74]

My cross came with an extra booklet, just for the 4X4. It covers the ESP system, the hill holder, the ELD, changing bulbs in the cross version, and towing the car.
For the hill holder function, i've just had a quick look, unfortunatley they've given me that page in french!!! Any how, google translator seems to suggest it doesn't give any more information on how it works than the main booklet. As for the warning light, it basically says - go see your dealer!!

The towing section says,

The car can only be towed in one of the following ways (always and exculusively with the engine off, gearbox in neutral and handbreak disengaged):
- with the 4 wheels on the roadbed;
- with front wheels raised or resting on the wrecking car floor and rear wheels resting on a suitable truck
- with rear wheels raised or resting on the wrecking car floor and front wheels resting on a suitable truck;
-on wrecking car, with front and rear wheels resting on the wrecking car floor.

Maybe the way the AA towed your car has something to do with it?? it says the hill holder function kicks in at 2% incline if thats any help. And other than that it says its part of the ESP system but no mention of tilt sensors.
Good luck with getting it sorted.

 

[Sammyboy]

The car uses it's ESP system to judge the incline - I think it's the yaw sensor. It works when reversing up a hill too.
To be honest my Panda would sometimes sit without rolling, as the road seemed flat and when I pulled away the hillholder was holding the brakes, and at times the car has been rolling back and it still didn't cut in.

It holds it for two seconds and radually releases the brake tension and you hear the brakes releasing.

 

[mollyandbuttons]

Hill Holder also works fine when reversing downhill into a tight parking space .... kangaroo style !!!

 

[pandasam]

Hill Holder also works fine when reversing downhill into a tight parking space .... kangaroo style !!!

hahaha!

 

[percymon]

Well it worked perefctly fo the first 17 months of our ownership and now i get the intermittent light, sometimes when travelling ona level road at 70mph !

Could just be an abs sensor on its way out i guess ?

 

[Sammyboy]

Well it worked perefctly fo the first 17 months of our ownership and now i get the intermittent light, sometimes when travelling ona level road at 70mph !

Could just be an abs sensor on its way out i guess ?

My Panda and Grande Punto had this fault. Generally my ESP warning came on at the same time. When Fiat took them in to look at both cars they said they didn't know the fault and just cleared the fault codes. My Panda also used to refuse to rev above 3000RPM which was really dangerous as it happened anywhere like driving on the motorway. In the end they replaced the throttle body and this solved all of the problems

 

[Sammyboy]

I had mega problems with my ESP, Hillholder and Traction Control on both the Panda and Punto. We had starting problems with both too. I think it's the ESP system. My parents have owned 4 Grandes Puntos and a Panda without ESP and had no problems however my Panda and Punto both had problems when fitted with this system.

Something that is quite surprising and I still don't know why is the difference in the ESP on the Panda and Punto.
The Panda was running around on a spacesaver on the front and tyres worn to the limit, but in the snow it behaved like the roads were completely dry! Not once did it deviate from my intended path and whilst everyone else was struggling the Panda was amazing.
The Puntos ESP however was rubbish! If the car had started to slide i'd have corrected it before the ESP kicked in and then the ESP would be over zealous and really upset the cars balance (I tested the ESP on a snowy car park)

I use a 500 with ESP too and it's system is not very sensitive either - it makes me wonder if my Pandas sensitivity was just a one off?
Anybody have any experience with their ESP effectiveness?

 

[percymon]

My Panda and Grande Punto had this fault. Generally my ESP warning came on at the same time. When Fiat took them in to look at both cars they said they didn't know the fault and just cleared the fault codes. My Panda also used to refuse to rev above 3000RPM which was really dangerous as it happened anywhere like driving on the motorway. In the end they replaced the throttle body and this solved all of the problems

Thanks for sharing your experience - our Panda doesn't have ESP, only the hill holder function and ASR which were standard AFAIK.

I'll check the connections at the throttle body just in case, but given the amount of interogation it had as part of the ecu failure i'd be surprised if i find anything TBH

 

[Sammyboy]

In the UK we only get Hillholder and ASR as part of the ESP (£400 option!)

 

[percymon]

Oh well, guess it has ESP then - despite the dealer telling us the only extras fitted were metallic paint, rubbing strips and roof rails.

Given the original buyer was a 75yr old with only local shopping trips in mind, hence the 4k/yr mileage for the first 3 years, seems a daft option for him to select !

 

[Sammyboy]

Oh well, guess it has ESP then - despite the dealer telling us the only extras fitted were metallic paint, rubbing strips and roof rails.

Given the original buyer was a 75yr old with only local shopping trips in mind, hence the 4k/yr mileage for the first 3 years, seems a daft option for him to select !

You can never disable the ESP only the ASR (good design in my opinion) so you have an ASR button but not ESP button. When you turn the ignition on when the warning lights come on you should be able to see the ESP warning light.
If I remeber correctly it's a Triangle with an exclamation mark inside with an arrow going around the outside.
A £400 option that's really rare on used Pandas - I think you're quite lucky

 

[percymon]

Not had much use this week, but the hill holder light has behaved itself and the system is working again. Maybe just a loose connection somewhere !

 

[SpartanX]

Apologies for resurrecting an old thread but I have found some info. on the hill holder system that I thought I could share.

As a new owner of a Panda Cross, I was diligently reading the owner's manual (sad, I know, I think it's a generational thing); page 70 of my manual states (precis):

HILL HOLDER SYSTEM (where provided)

Integral part of ESP to facilitate starting on slopes ... activated automatically when:

Uphill: car at a standstill on 2%+ gradient, engine running, clutch and brake pedal depressed, gearbox neutral or non-reverse gear

Downhill: as above but gearbox in reverse

At 'pickup' (by which I think it means transferring foot from brake to accelerator pedal, in gear with clutch coming up to bite), the system will keep brake force until reaching the torque suitable for starting or max. 2 seconds before realeasing brakes gradually

Having driven a new Astra (excuse me) hire car recently, I have an insight into its use in practice: that car had an electronically operated handbrake (one finger on/off). To release it you had to put your foot on the footbrake first. I cursed this for inhibiting smooth hill starts but, in fact, it displayed the behaviour described above, i.e. left brakes on for up to two seconds to give you time to get your foot back on the accelerator for driving off. It kind of made sense here with this stupid electronic handbrake (something else to go wrong!) but in the Panda with traditional handbrake it seems of little use.

What the system is NOT (that I thought it might be) is some kind of hill descent system - the kind that means you don't have to worry about clutch/brake when descending steep hills.

Hope that helps! Nice to find a friendly forum to go with my new car BTW