Technical HGT Cam Sensor error & engine not firing

[sHAYM4N]

So took my HGT for a short spin round to the park to walk the dog last night & it ended up being a 3 hour trip

It's been making a whistling/wheezing noise as I come off the accelerator this past week (for the first few miles of a trip) so was wanting to check on that.

Sat in the car park to come home, & she just refused to spark up. Engine turning fine but being stubborn. Called out the AA, carb spray didn't help & a scan turned out a cam sensor error.

Pitch black so he couldn't locate the sensor, but after 10 minutes she decided to fire up. Advised by the AA to still take it into the garage, being that it would likely happen again.

Maybe nothing but one thing he did notice was that a cover or lining maybe missing by the wiper bay as it looked like it was free for runoff water to run down into the wiring loom? Anyone have a pic of what should be there?

Decided to take it into a local Fiat specialist after having an intermittent problems with bungee jumping revs since I got it so really hoping they can finally nail what it is. It's been needing new brakes & an exhaust for a while now but don't really want to fork out there until I know these problems aren't going to be the end of it.

On the off chance, anyone had similar issues & know what I could be looking at here?

 

[sHAYM4N]

Photo of the engine bay from a few months back (had intended to do some cleaning & detailing, but ironically didn't want to start playing with any water in there until I had got these problems sorted).

Can see going by this nice clean example below that there's a few bits missing there now Anyone know what parts I'd be looking for here to try and rebuild & fix it up?

 

[puntodad19]

Cant zoom in to the picture, bhut what are those 2 white things sticking up from the top strut mounts??

water and electrics ( oil as well ) dont mix, so make a shield or deflector to stop water entering the loom......you know it makes sense.

 

[astacheva]

The camshaft sensor is behind the exhaust camshaft sprocket (Red circle), it usually doesnt fail, but when it does the car wont start at all. To replace it, it would be a timing belt off job.

The blue circle is it cable of the sensor. There should be a plug below there. Check if the connection is corroded and clean it with contact cleaner.

 

[sHAYM4N]

The camshaft sensor is behind the exhaust camshaft sprocket (Red circle), it usually doesnt fail, but when it does the car wont start at all. To replace it, it would be a timing belt off job.

The blue circle is it cable of the sensor. There should be a plug below there. Check if the connection is corroded and clean it with contact cleaner.

Sorry only just spotted this, many thanks for that! Garage supposedly checked it (or at least for further errors) and it didnt occur again, so was a weird one off.

However I've had an issue with dipping revs (and stalls) when dropping gears since I got the car 3 years ago and they put this down to a split breather hose on the throttle body (which they've sealed back up).

Had it back and it's been worse if anything. Its currently back in with a local garage and it has him stumped as well atm (but of course its behaving for him), could this be down to the cam sensor being off?

He says its not reporting any errors, but my electrics do throw false warnings sometimes too, so wondering if its just not being flagged?

Have a noisy variator & have no record of the timing belt being done so just wondering if its worth a shot getting all 3 done?

 

[astacheva]

If you had the car for 3 year not knowing when the cambelt was serviced it's always a good idea to replace it with all the other components related to it (water pump, tensioner. AND the if the variator sounds like a old diesel engine it's also a good idea).

However neither of those would make the car stall as you say, neither the camshaft sensor. It used be a headache to me a while ago.

In my case I resolved it by cleaning the earths, the one attached to the engine or transmission and the one to the chassis. You can even attach another earth cable to the engine. I also cleaned the whole throttle body, even the parts inside the black plastic cover.

Disconnect the battery for at least 30 minutes and do the throttle relearn procedure.

The stalling problem with the 1.8 engines, I think is due bad communication between the throttle position sensor and the ECU, so a good earth would probably resolve it, like in my case.

Btw, the camshaft sensor usually doesn't go bad.

 

[sHAYM4N]

If you had the car for 3 year not knowing when the cambelt was serviced it's always a good idea to replace it with all the other components related to it (water pump, tensioner. AND the if the variator sounds like a old diesel engine it's also a good idea).

However neither of those would make the car stall as you say, neither the camshaft sensor. It used be a headache to me a while ago.

In my case I resolved it by cleaning the earths, the one attached to the engine or transmission and the one to the chassis. You can even attach another earth cable to the engine. I also cleaned the whole throttle body, even the parts inside the black plastic cover.

Disconnect the battery for at least 30 minutes and do the throttle relearn procedure.

The stalling problem with the 1.8 engines, I think is due bad communication between the throttle position sensor and the ECU, so a good earth would probably resolve it, like in my case.

Btw, the camshaft sensor usually doesn't go bad.

Brilliant thanks, will give the garage a call. I had it in my mind for some reason that the timing belt had been done but have no record of it, so probably best sort with the variator being loud. It's not doing many miles (on 49k and I've only done around 8k in 3 years).

Only other thing that's happened recently (last couple of months or so) is a whistling sound in the engine bay somewhere. Occurs when releasing the accelerator, but the stalls predate that issue by years so guessing it wont be related?

Throttle body itself has been cleaned a couple of times I think and at least doesn't look in bad shape (from what I can see - has supposedly been cleaned beneath), but will get him to check and look at the earth.

Thanks again!

 

[sHAYM4N]

Also spotted the conclusion to this thread, (sounds worse than mine) but if the above doesn't work, wondered if it could even be the fuel pump? https://www.fiatforum.com/punto-ii/446506-fiat-punto-mk2-1-8-problem.html

 

[astacheva]

If your garage has a fuel testing gauge they can measure the how many bars or psi it makes to the fuel rail.
Our injectors, which are IWP006, work at around 45 psi or 3 bar.

If by any chance you still want to chance the fuel pump, just change the small fuel pump motor inside. Not the whole white plastic thing. Way cheaper.
I replaced mine a couples months ago btw. It just died.

The whistle sound its more likely to be a vacuum leak somewhere.
Smoke machine is the way to go for finding small leaks such as yours.

 

[sHAYM4N]

If your garage has a fuel testing gauge they can measure the how many bars or psi it makes to the fuel rail.
Our injectors, which are IWP006, work at around 45 psi or 3 bar.

If by any chance you still want to chance the fuel pump, just change the small fuel pump motor inside. Not the whole white plastic thing. Way cheaper.
I replaced mine a couples months ago btw. It just died.

The whistle sound its more likely to be a vacuum leak somewhere.
Smoke machine is the way to go for finding small leaks such as yours.

Brilliant thanks again!

Car back from the garage yesterday. He was unable to replicate it on a drive test even on cold, yet happens to me quite frequently

He checked the earths & the whistling noise. (That seems to be coming from the fan belt)

One thing he did notice was that I seem to have a slight leak from the exhaust manifold, said it looked like someone had tried messing with the bolts on that at some point, so something to get checked out.

Looks like the cambelt was done at around 33k miles in 2012 (found it scribbled on the back of the service book) but will get them to check if I get the variator done along with the manifold & tensioners.

He said that locating it was difficult because with no errors on the ecu it's pretty much a needle in a haystack, so still frustrating.

Trying to find a way a common factor for it to occur, so may take it for a spin later to see if I can force it. One thing that does seem to affect it is how quickly I have to slow down. If its a slow crawl it usually is fine, but if its a quick stop and clutch in it'll dive below idle & 9 time out of ten will stall. (Also main bug bear as I don't have time to catch it on the accelerator) If its on a hill up or down, sometimes this seems to make it happen more often too. (though may all be a coincidence)

 

[astacheva]

I remember i used to have a constant whistle, even could hear it while idling, barely noticeable which i manage to find coming for a solenoid hidden behind the black plastic intake manifold.
This solenoid has cap on the of the sides which apparently came just a little bit out and it was pulling vacuum from there.

I got a picture of where is it located so you could check in your car if it comes from there.

If by any chance it comes from there put your hand down there and try to push the cap back in place or the rubber hoses.

 

[astacheva]

Also forgot to tell you about the main ECU earth. Would be a good idea clean it with a wire brush also.

Here it is: