Technical Here goes oil question ? ?

[fiatsport77]

Well I’ve been slacking and forgot to check the mrs ? due to this dragged out pandemic
It’s a 500 twin air105bhp anyways here goes…was out doing something too my own car and thought of it and checked the oil on hers. It’s almost empty
No leaks or anything but no light either,
on the dipstick the oil is just on the end.
I’ve Been looking online and a bit stumped on what oil to buy as I need it asap like for tomorrow if poss!
Can I just grab some stop start castrol ACEA C2 0W-30
Or do I have to be specific as in using the classification to the T?
And buy Selenia or is this just like buying a pair of Nikes over a pair of flip flops lol (name sake)
oil viscosity Match but do the additives really matter that much.

 

[percymon]

0w30 if it’s euro 6 emission compliant, 5w40 if it’s the earlier euro 5

A top up with any major brand oil of the correct rating is far better than running on low oil, Castro,, Fuchs, shell, millers

 

[John202020]

I can't directly help but do know you need the exact spec oil this is important in this engine unlike most. I would change the oil and filter rather than just top up.

 

[fiatsport77]

I did a full change and worked out the dipstick on these lie!
What a bad design lol even swapping out the air filter was a pain,8 bolts just to get it out?
What’s all that about ��

 

[arekp]

2015 1.4L manual 500x Australia: I use Valvoline Full Synthetic SynPower MST Engine Oil 5W-40 5L 1293.05

 

[jrkitching]

2015 1.4L manual 500x Australia: I use Valvoline Full Synthetic SynPower MST Engine Oil 5W-40 5L 1293.05

This is a completely different engine with completely different valve technology; for someone with a TA, this information is at best useless, and at worst dangerous.

The 105TA has hydraulic valve gear and a turbocharger, and requires a specific specification of oil to work correctly. There have been many posts here highlighting the need to stick strictly with the manufacturers oil recommendations for the TA.

On the unboosted NA engines, there's a bit more latitude; for example, I've never heard of a 1.2 FIRE being damaged by out of spec oil.

 

[Catnapper]

We have the same model, 2015 Euro 5.
After much investigation I use Petronas 7000E 0/30W get it from halfrauds with my trade card.

 

[arekp]

jrkitching, hold on a bit mate!

my generic user manual shows:
9.55535-GS1 or MS.90048 Selenia 0W-30 ACEA C2 / API SN


Our FIAT dealer did the first 4 services and used:
Selenia K Pure Energy 5W-40
SAE 5W-40,VW 505.01,API SM/CF,ACEA C3,MB-Approval 229.51,BMW LL-04,VW 502.00-505.00,FIAT 9.55535-S2 CONTRACTUAL TECHNICAL REFERENCE N°F603.C07


Why is my Valvoline a dangerous choice?


Full Synthetic SynPower MST Engine Oil 5W-40 5L 1293.05
API SN/CF, ACEA C3, MB 229.31, MB 229.51, BMW LL-04, Renault RN0710, RN0700, Porsche A40

 

[The Panda Nut]

Why is my Valvoline a dangerous choice?

The whole valve operating system is hydraulic and controlled by the multiair unit. This is the part that is prone to fail at heavy cost!!! The oil acts as a hydraulic fluid which is something far more technically demanding than a lubricant normally is. Your oil has to do both jobs.

I have read a large number of posts on failure of the mutiair and the huge cost of replacement, and of the fine filters blocking and causing this issue.

The engine will probaly get by on any decent oil, but the multi air will almost certainly not. The variable valve actuation and timing will be affected and this may very well cause problems from day one, or later if not.

Its just not worth taking the risk on my opinion. You are gambling and its your money, but don't say you weren't warned of the potential issues.

Pay the extra and use the best oil would be my choice on this every time. In the end its up to you.

 

[jrkitching]

jrkitching, hold on a bit mate!

my generic user manual shows:
9.55535-GS1 or MS.90048 Selenia 0W-30 ACEA C2 / API SN


Our FIAT dealer did the first 4 services and used:
Selenia K Pure Energy 5W-40
SAE 5W-40,VW 505.01,API SM/CF,ACEA C3,MB-Approval 229.51,BMW LL-04,VW 502.00-505.00,FIAT 9.55535-S2 CONTRACTUAL TECHNICAL REFERENCE N°F603.C07


Why is my Valvoline a dangerous choice?


Full Synthetic SynPower MST Engine Oil 5W-40 5L 1293.05
API SN/CF, ACEA C3, MB 229.31, MB 229.51, BMW LL-04, Renault RN0710, RN0700, Porsche A40

If yours is a 1.4, then it isn't, for your engine. And in Australia, where summer temperatures are (usually, it's hot here right now!) higher than in the UK, then a slight increase in viscosity actually makes some sense.

But the OP has a completely different engine, and for them, it is. The TA valve gear is mapped for a specific oil viscosity/temperature profile and it won't work properly if the oil used doesn't match what it's expecting.

A substitution that may be perfectly safe for one car isn't necessarily safe for all of them.

 

[arekp]

Panda Nut, the oil I'm using has same specs as the oil used by my Fiat dealer. So should I tell them they've been using the wrong oil?

jrkitching, you're right, that's exactly why I specified that I'm in Australia.

 

[plasma99]

0w30 if it’s euro 6 emission compliant, 5w40 if it’s the earlier euro 5

I have a 2015 TA and have never been totally sure which it is - Euro 5 or 6. The oil selector websites tend to give a choice of both grades of the oil which doesn't help. The local Fiat garage couldn't give me a definitive answer from the registration plate. However, the manual clearly states 0W30 so I have made an assumption that it is a EURO 6 model/manual. Can anyone clear this up? Is there an engine code one can look for on the VIN plate or something?

 

[A3jeroen]

Panda Nut, the oil I'm using has same specs as the oil used by my Fiat dealer. So should I tell them they've been using the wrong oil?

jrkitching, you're right, that's exactly why I specified that I'm in Australia.

Cause you don't have the same bloody engine mate (my best australian accent).

Your 1.4 is not a TwinAir (two cilinders, turbo and valves operated not by cams, but hydrailcs using the engine oil)

You can not compare the two (apples, pears)

gr J

 

[The Panda Nut]

Well, as said else where, you do need the correct grade. I am not sure where the 1.4 comments came from but the same principle applies to that anyway.

I would ask your garage to justify their products and not just trust them. They may be right or wrong depends on what Fiat have advised them. Maybe there is a tech bulletin they have reacted to.

If yours is 2015 its more likely to be Euro 5 as the new spec started in September of 2015. My car parts are just a couple of months previous to its build date as many are dated its easy to tell so you may be able to get a steer from looking at the build date and first reg date. Euro 6 is supposed to have the revised oil type. I suspect you may have a bit more lassitude if yours is Euro 5 you can use either the old or new oil specs. If Euro 6 its best to use the Euro 6 spec oil.

 

[Catnapper]

0w30 if it’s euro 6 emission compliant, 5w40 if it’s the earlier euro 5

I have a 2015 TA and have never been totally sure which it is - Euro 5 or 6. The oil selector websites tend to give a choice of both grades of the oil which doesn't help. The local Fiat garage couldn't give me a definitive answer from the registration plate. However, the manual clearly states 0W30 so I have made an assumption that it is a EURO 6 model/manual. Can anyone clear this up? Is there an engine code one can look for on the VIN plate or something?

Does it not quote euro 5 or 6 in V5?

 

[plasma99]

Does it not quote euro 5 or 6 in V5?

I cannot see a specific box on the form related to it. It states exhaust emission V1 (CO) at 0.350, V2 (HC) at 0.024 and V2 (NOx) at 0.033. Nothing stated for V4 or V5. Be interested to know how that compares with the figures from a known Euro 6 twin air 85bhp if anyone has their V5 to hand

 

[plasma99]

If Parkers Guide is to be believed, both the 0.9 and 1.2 Petrols meet Euro 6 from 2010 onwards:-

Engine Date Range EURO CAT
0.9 10/10 - 6/15 6
0.9 9/15 – 12/19 6
0.9 (105hp) 9/15 - 6
1.0 (70hp) 1/20 - 6
1.2 1/08 – 12/09 4
1.2 Start Stop 1/10 – 6/15 6
1.2 9/15 – 12/19 6
1.3 Diesel 1/08 – 12/09 4
1.3 Diesel (95hp) 1/10 – 6/15 5
1.3 Diesel 12/15 – 12/17 6
1.4 1/08 – 12/09 4
1.4 Start Stop 1/10 – 12/11 5

 

[jrkitching]

If Parkers Guide is to be believed

It isn't.

Just a cursory glance reveals a number of inaccuracies in that table (I have a 03/10 1.2 Start/Stop which is most definitely Euro5); it's worse than useless, and misleading.

 

[plasma99]

But although built to Euro 5 of course, could it not meet current Euro 6 standards? I was wondering if that might be the case for the 0.9. Maybe they did not actually need to tweak the engine in 2015. No idea - just speculating. I’m going to carry on using 0w30 oil in my 0.9 whatever.

 

[jrkitching]

But although built to Euro 5 of course, could it not meet current Euro 6 standards?

Most definitely. For example, the 500 met Euro5 standards from launch, but wasn't actually homologated to Euro5 until the 2010 model year.

However, that isn't a lot of help as far as oil specs for the TA are concerned. The reason it's so oil critical is that there's a highly accurate temperature sensor in the system, and hydraulic pressure is adjusted in accordance with a lookup table in the engine control software which correatates oil temperature and viscosity. If the oil temperature/viscosity curve isn't what the software is expecting, there may be valve control problems and the engine won't run properly.

What noone seems to know for certain is whether Fiat updated the lookup table at the same time they changed the recommended oil specification. It's surmised that this change was concurrent with the move from Euro5 to Euro6 (lower oil viscosity helps emissions performance), but we don't know if the software was changed to enable the uniair system to adapt to the oil spec change.

So the correct oil for a TA may depend on what's programmed in the engine management system.