Technical Help on fuel pump timing on 1.9 td

[sprie]

I have the 1.9 Turbo Diesel from 1999. I have removed various items from the engine as i was expecting to have to remove the engine.

I can't track down the instructions for the timing of the Fuel Pump.

ref Crank: I can see the mark on the pulley and a mark on the block that indicates TDC

Ref Cam: (head is away at engineers being rebuilt): I will be able to check the cam for TDC and I am assuming there is an indication on the pulley (i have seen on other engines, you stick a 8mm bolt through the pulley)

Ref Fuel Pump. I can see a indentation for a woodruff key (which i think may have got lost when the pulley came off). I am hoping there is some relationship between the woodruff key and some mark on a bracket - does anyone have information for how to time the fuel pump on this engine?

 

[bugsymike]

I have the 1.9 Turbo Diesel from 1999. I have removed various items from the engine as i was expecting to have to remove the engine.

I can't track down the instructions for the timing of the Fuel Pump.

ref Crank: I can see the mark on the pulley and a mark on the block that indicates TDC

Ref Cam: (head is away at engineers being rebuilt): I will be able to check the cam for TDC and I am assuming there is an indication on the pulley (i have seen on other engines, you stick a 8mm bolt through the pulley)

Ref Fuel Pump. I can see a indentation for a woodruff key (which i think may have got lost when the pulley came off). I am hoping there is some relationship between the woodruff key and some mark on a bracket - does anyone have information for how to time the fuel pump on this engine?

Can you supply engine series number and exact cc?
I have cam belt timing details, but as long as the woodruff key and pulley on pump go back as original and no internal pump alterations.
Do you have a photo of the engine?

 

[sprie]

Can you supply engine series number and exact cc?
I have cam belt timing details, but as long as the woodruff key and pulley on pump go back as original and no internal pump alterations.
Do you have a photo of the engine?

Hi.
Thanks for your reply
i can attach the pulley over the woodruff key - but when i am installing the cambelt, when I have the crankshaft at TDC and head at TDC, i don't know what position the woodruff key should be at - is there a pointer, should it be vertical etc, or is it some other position?
Engine info, and picture of engine below.
I don't know exactly the exact cc.

 

[bugsymike]

Hi.
Thanks for your reply
i can attach the pulley over the woodruff key - but when i am installing the cambelt, when I have the crankshaft at TDC and head at TDC, i don't know what position the woodruff key should be at - is there a pointer, should it be vertical etc, or is it some other position?
Engine info, and picture of engine below.
I don't know exactly the exact cc.

This any good.
Note the cam timing mark is different for the turbo version and as usual with any cam belt job , turn the engine over by hand at least two full revolutions before trying to start, that way if you get the timing wrong then no physical damage will be done.

 

[sprie]

This any good.
Note the cam timing mark is different for the turbo version and as usual with any cam belt job , turn the engine over by hand at least two full revolutions before trying to start, that way if you get the timing wrong then no physical damage will be done.

That manual looks exactly what I need. Can you tell me title etc so I can try and find a copy?
Thanks for the reply.

 

[bugsymike]

That manual looks exactly what I need. Can you tell me title etc so I can try and find a copy?
Thanks for the reply.

It is a trade publication by AutoData and the bit you have seen is the only part referring to your vehicle.
I probably have the Technical Service Data version for your vehicle giving tightening torques etc.
They don't tell you how to do a job as being for the Motor Trade we should know all that any way
The manuals I used to buy every year spending well over a £100 nearly 20 years ago, nowadays it is over a £1000 and all online , but with more specifics.

 

[sprie]

It is a trade publication by AutoData and the bit you have seen is the only part referring to your vehicle.
I probably have the Technical Service Data version for your vehicle giving tightening torques etc.
They don't tell you how to do a job as being for the Motor Trade we should know all that any way
The manuals I used to buy every year spending well over a £100 nearly 20 years ago, nowadays it is over a £1000 and all online , but with more specifics.

Thanks for all this information.
Shame about the manual, but i guess that's the way it is.
Really good of you to track down this information for me - now i know what timing marks to look for. I have not been able to track down this information any where else, so this is a game changer.

 

[bugsymike]

Thanks for all this information.
Shame about the manual, but i guess that's the way it is.
Really good of you to track down this information for me - now i know what timing marks to look for. I have not been able to track down this information any where else, so this is a game changer.

Glad it helps, although when I die I expect my children will just throw all these manuals away.
If you need the other data re valve clearances, head tightening torque, oil capacities etc. let me know.
Incidentally they do occasionally come up on eBay or at Autojumbles, the only problem is the details for one vehicle is an expensive way of buying the whole book as usually just one or two pages relevant to a persons vehicle .

 

[sprie]

Glad it helps, although when I die I expect my children will just throw all these manuals away.
If you need the other data re valve clearances, head tightening torque, oil capacities etc. let me know.
Incidentally they do occasionally come up on eBay or at Autojumbles, the only problem is the details for one vehicle is an expensive way of buying the whole book as usually just one or two pages relevant to a persons vehicle .

hi.
The head is being rebuilt by my local engineers - so i think they know the valve details.
I do have a pdf Technical Manual for the engine, but it is in Italian, and i have tried and failed to track down the head tightening torques, so if you were able to look up those details, it would be appreciated.
I do have the elearn (in english) for the 2002 onward engines, so i am hoping that the specs are close to my engine, but you never know what changes!
atb

 

[bugsymike]

hi.
The head is being rebuilt by my local engineers - so i think they know the valve details.
I do have a pdf Technical Manual for the engine, but it is in Italian, and i have tried and failed to track down the head tightening torques, so if you were able to look up those details, it would be appreciated.
I do have the elearn (in english) for the 2002 onward engines, so i am hoping that the specs are close to my engine, but you never know what changes!
atb

Any good?

 

[sprie]

Any good?

that's also what i needed - have seen specs for different engines, but they are different to those in the photo. I am starting on the big end bearings tomorrow, will see how those torque specs feel.
atb

 

[sprie]

that's also what i needed - have seen specs for different engines, but they are different to those in the photo. I am starting on the big end bearings tomorrow, will see how those torque specs feel.
atb

I am afraid i have another complication.
(note: I am still awaiting the head back before trying to rebuild the engine).

ref the timing, there are 3 gears that must be set correctly
1) crankshaft - not an issue, there is a mark on the gear and a mark on the mounting that are aligned at TDC.
2) camshaft - hopefully not an issue. The gear (photo 1 below) has one mark on the rim, and i am assuming there will be a mark on the relevant mounting (once i have refitted) to match point 13 on the photo of the manual above. fingers crossed
3) fuel pump - the gear has 2 marks/indents (see photo 2 - about "11:30" and "12:30") on the rim - and i don't know which i need to use. There are some other bits of paint that someone has put on the gear in completely different places.

Whilst getting the crankshaft and camshaft timing right is essential to avoid the valves and pistons interfering and i can test that by manually turning the crankshaft, getting the fuel pump wrong is also pretty serious. The position of the woodruff key doesn't seem to help either.

any thoughts?

 

[bugsymike]

I am afraid i have another complication.
(note: I am still awaiting the head back before trying to rebuild the engine).

ref the timing, there are 3 gears that must be set correctly
1) crankshaft - not an issue, there is a mark on the gear and a mark on the mounting that are aligned at TDC.
2) camshaft - hopefully not an issue. The gear (photo 1 below) has one mark on the rim, and i am assuming there will be a mark on the relevant mounting (once i have refitted) to match point 13 on the photo of the manual above. fingers crossed
3) fuel pump - the gear has 2 marks/indents (see photo 2 - about "11:30" and "12:30") on the rim - and i don't know which i need to use. There are some other bits of paint that someone has put on the gear in completely different places.

Whilst getting the crankshaft and camshaft timing right is essential to avoid the valves and pistons interfering and i can test that by manually turning the crankshaft, getting the fuel pump wrong is also pretty serious. The position of the woodruff key doesn't seem to help either.

any thoughts?

Did you see on my cambelt timing book it mentions two marks, one for non turbo and one for turbo engines, details 4 and 13 at camshaft,
but only one on the injection pump pulley.
Is it possible the two pulleys have been mixed?
If you get really keen, it is possible to check the "spill port timing" method to confirm the injection point.
If there is fuel up to the pump and a clear plastic pipe is connected to number one injector pipe from pump, once that pipe is full of fuel , as you turn the pulley in correct direction you may be able to see the pulse of fuel as the timing point meets.

 

[sprie]

Did you see on my cambelt timing book it mentions two marks, one for non turbo and one for turbo engines, details 4 and 13 at camshaft,
but only one on the injection pump pulley.
Is it possible the two pulleys have been mixed?
If you get really keen, it is possible to check the "spill port timing" method to confirm the injection point.
If there is fuel up to the pump and a clear plastic pipe is connected to number one injector pipe from pump, once that pipe is full of fuel , as you turn the pulley in correct direction you may be able to see the pulse of fuel as the timing point meets.

Hi. Yes thanks. I saw the info on the camshaft and I am expecting to see a mark in the right place on a bracket etc when I rebuild/refit.
I am sure I haven't mixed up the gears, the

Did you see on my cambelt timing book it mentions two marks, one for non turbo and one for turbo engines, details 4 and 13 at camshaft,
but only one on the injection pump pulley.
Is it possible the two pulleys have been mixed?
If you get really keen, it is possible to check the "spill port timing" method to confirm the injection point.
If there is fuel up to the pump and a clear plastic pipe is connected to number one injector pipe from pump, once that pipe is full of fuel , as you turn the pulley in correct direction you may be able to see the pulse of fuel as the timing point meets.

Hi BugsyMike

Thanks for the note, sorry for delay in responding, i wanted to double check!
I have checked the gears and can confirm details above:

Ref fuel pump gear:
1) I did put a label on the fuel pump gear when i took it off - the label is still there (partly shown in picture)
2) the central hole is larger and tapered, and fits the fuel pump

Ref the camshaft gear
1) this was attached to head so didn't get a label - but has been separated from the head as part of the rebuild
2) the central hole is smaller and doesn't fit on the fuel pump.

I am OK with your note about the 2 marks for the camshaft - when i rebuild the engine, i expect to see mark "13" and use that for my turbo engine.

So, I guess i will wait until i have rebuild the engine, and see if anything becomes clearer about the 2 marks on the fuel pump gear. I was hoping to find something in the Bosch Fuel Pump specifications which would inform me at which position it should be for TDC on the engine, but i can't find anything, so in desperation i would have to do the test as you describe. I am guessing it would push fuel to cylinder 1 just on or about TDC.

atb

 

[bugsymike]

Hi. Yes thanks. I saw the info on the camshaft and I am expecting to see a mark in the right place on a bracket etc when I rebuild/refit.
I am sure I haven't mixed up the gears, the

Hi BugsyMike

Thanks for the note, sorry for delay in responding, i wanted to double check!
I have checked the gears and can confirm details above:

Ref fuel pump gear:
1) I did put a label on the fuel pump gear when i took it off - the label is still there (partly shown in picture)
2) the central hole is larger and tapered, and fits the fuel pump

Ref the camshaft gear
1) this was attached to head so didn't get a label - but has been separated from the head as part of the rebuild
2) the central hole is smaller and doesn't fit on the fuel pump.

I am OK with your note about the 2 marks for the camshaft - when i rebuild the engine, i expect to see mark "13" and use that for my turbo engine.

So, I guess i will wait until i have rebuild the engine, and see if anything becomes clearer about the 2 marks on the fuel pump gear. I was hoping to find something in the Bosch Fuel Pump specifications which would inform me at which position it should be for TDC on the engine, but i can't find anything, so in desperation i would have to do the test as you describe. I am guessing it would push fuel to cylinder 1 just on or about TDC.

atb

I can't recall, but is there no key on the injection pump shaft, only the taper in which case obviously any marks are irrelevant now the pulley is off.
Below is more detail re injection timing, it is a bit time consuming, which it is why where possible to leave the injection timing undisturbed and clearly marked.