Panda HELLO - ESPECIALLY FIAT PANDA 1.2 OWNERS

[JAMLAX]

I'm just getting round to saying "Hello" after randomly finding my way around the workings of the Fiat Forum. I have a bit of a tendency to go about things in a back-to-front manner! But, after plunging into buying my 2004 Fiat Panda 1.2 for £750 I look forward with hopefulness to the reliability and repairability of these long production means of transport. With a small motoring budget and a fair bit of help from my brother mechanic (plus some really helpful Panda experts on here) it shouldn't be too much longer to get this undertsated four-wheeler through the MOT and onto the north-east of Scotland's roads.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Welcome. As you can see I'm in Edinburgh but spent some time up in your neck of the woods when a youngster - Laurencekirk/Auchenblae and area. In later years, on honeymoon, got stuck up the Cairn O' Mount in our Ford Anglia - don't ask what I was doing trying that road in November, I was young and stupid and trying to impress!

Good luck with the Panda. At that age, and especially with the amount of salt on our roads in winter, take a careful look at the rear axle, spring pans especially, also the engine sump. The sumps can rust until they are like a sieve and Weep/leak oil. Lots more I could tell you, but that'll do for starters. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of these super wee cars. Good luck with yours.

 

[JAMLAX]

Thanks for the welcome. Quite a bonus to realise you and others on here as mechanics / retired mechanics no less / are able to give the thumbs up to the Panda from plenty of years of experience. Aye, I'll be keeping an attentive eye on that rear axle arrangement plus the engine sump. Pleasingly, the typically problematic Panda rust-prone axle actually looks 'nae bad' so we've been able to wire brush the spring pans areas and spray them with underseal. We've already gone ahead and fitted a set of new springs and shockers (gas ones) front and rear. As you say, plenty more items to look out for but enough to be going on with for now - stage one objective - pass the MOT test! Ah yes - Cairn o'the Mount might be just the adventure to see how well the clutch behaves - some sunny day in the not too distant future. Cheers!

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Thanks for the welcome. Quite a bonus to realise you and others on here as mechanics / retired mechanics no less / are able to give the thumbs up to the Panda from plenty of years of experience. Aye, I'll be keeping an attentive eye on that rear axle arrangement plus the engine sump. Pleasingly, the typically problematic Panda rust-prone axle actually looks 'nae bad' so we've been able to wire brush the spring pans areas and spray them with underseal. We've already gone ahead and fitted a set of new springs and shockers (gas ones) front and rear. As you say, plenty more items to look out for but enough to be going on with for now - stage one objective - pass the MOT test! Ah yes - Cairn o'the Mount might be just the adventure to see how well the clutch behaves - some sunny day in the not too distant future. Cheers!

Sounds like you're getting her well sorted out!. Can I just ask if the underseal was one of the rubberised products? Personally I prefer the oily, waxy type as it doesn't dry out. The rubbery types have a bit of a bad name for cracking when they age and then allowing water in which, because the product is rubbery, doesn't then allow it to evaporate so actually makes the metal rust more quickly. Whatever type you've used make sure the drain holes in the pans aren't blocked. Enjoy your Panda won't you!

 

[JAMLAX]

Photos of the underseal would suggest the less good underseal? Drain holes for sure
The car began its life in the kinder climate of the Midlands - going by what I learned before purchasing the car.
I'm confident a grand job is underway at any rate. No harm in monitoring the underseal though. Great input Jock!

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Photos of the underseal would suggest the less good underseal? Drain holes for sure
The car began its life in the kinder climate of the Midlands - going by what I learned before purchasing the car.
I'm confident a grand job is underway at any rate. No harm in monitoring the underseal though. Great input Jock!

That looks very nice. Of course things always look nice with a lick of black, but it does look a lot better than my poor Becky's rear axle.

 

[koalar]

Not sure what I am seeing here

Looks wrong to me

Here's the turret the bump stops seats on

 

[The Panda Nut]

Photos of the underseal would suggest the less good underseal? Drain holes for sure
The car began its life in the kinder climate of the Midlands - going by what I learned before purchasing the car.
I'm confident a grand job is underway at any rate. No harm in monitoring the underseal though. Great input Jock!

Looks like a rust converter has been used. GET SOME Bilt Hamber UB type AND GO OVER IT ALL AGAIN. Also do the springs and cross beam Concentrate on the spring pan to swinging arm welds. Check the spring pan drain holes remain clear as you go.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Not sure what I am seeing here

View attachment 467902

Looks wrong to me

Here's the turret the bump stops seats on


View attachment 467903

Well spotted. Maybe covering something "nasty" or a plate retaining the bump stop? Pop rivets seem a bit inappropriate?

 

[JAMLAX]

Panda Nut and Koalar - I respect your analysis but I guess when the pupil/apprentice (me) is caught in the midst of a few excellent mechanics there are some things that are 10 out of 10 perfect repairs and there are other 7 out of 10 less than perfect repairs but on my limited budget I'm keeping safety as the priority for getting the Panda sorted for at least the next year. "Dinna fash!"

 

[Yolanda]

Photos of the underseal would suggest the less good underseal? Drain holes for sure
The car began its life in the kinder climate of the Midlands - going by what I learned before purchasing the car.
I'm confident a grand job is underway at any rate. No harm in monitoring the underseal though. Great input Jock!

Save yourself some money. Old engine oil and paraffin mix 1 part oil 2 paraffin used it for years with great results, just keep the spray away from brake hoses bushes etc.

 

[JAMLAX]

Thanks Yolanda - I'll keep this recipe in mind and may well use it soon. I might apply the mixture by brush and steer clear of the brake hoses, bushes etc as you have cautioned.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Thanks Yolanda - I'll keep this recipe in mind and may well use it soon. I might apply the mixture by brush and steer clear of the brake hoses, bushes etc as you have cautioned.

Yes, you don't want mineral oil anywhere near rubber parts. It was common back in my youth to paint stuff like leaf springs with old engine oil. A friend told me it could be used in place of creosote on sheds and fences. I tried it on our shed and the kids got so mucky with it Mrs J didn't speak to me for about a week!

 

[Yolanda]

Roll Royce, many years ago used to grease their leaf springs and put a leather casing around them from factory.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Roll Royce, many years ago used to grease their leaf springs and put a leather casing around them from factory.

That was quite common on better quality vehicles. I've seen hessian sacking wrapped round them too. The problem with greasing leaf springs is that the grease retains grit from the road which then acts as a grinding paste where the end of the leaf presses on the spring above wearing the metal away. This, of course, weakens the spring making it prone to breaking when heavily laden but also, because it wears a ridge across the spring leaf above it, can cause the spring to bind up on larger than usual bumps in the road making for a rough "joggy" ride. Wrapping the spring was an attempt to stop the grit getting in as well as stopping the grease being washed out.

 

[rmjbn1]

Not sure what I am seeing here

View attachment 467902

Looks wrong to me

Here's the turret the bump stops seats on


View attachment 467903

This is what mine looks like:

Rotted away until the bump stop punched out the end of the turret. I suspect similar has happened to OP's car.

Maybe instead of welding on a round plate, looks like a plate has been bent over the end of the turret and secured.

Any problems with this method? Until I learn to weld adequately, I'm rolling around on one bump stop.

Not an MOT issue, but I'm aware the bump stop is designed to work as part of the suspension, so I'd like to put it back.

 

[JAMLAX]

Not an MOT issue.
And if our roads were better prioritised we'd have less potholes and less need for bump stops!

 

[koalar]

Not an MOT issue.
And if our roads were better prioritised we'd have less potholes and less need for bump stops!

Not on these cars, the may be called bump stops but they are addition springs

The metal springs are only used when the rear is lightly loaded, this allows them to be softer for comfort

The elastomer springs becomes the main springs when the rear is loaded


Mine not loaded

Just over balf loaded

 

[JAMLAX]

Thanks for clarifying the actual way these items work.
The state of deterioration of the bump stops need more careful consideration than I had realised.

 

[koalar]

Thanks for clarifying the actual way these items work.
The state of deterioration of the bump stops need more careful consideration than I had realised.

Its no big deal if it's just the hole in it's base that's got big, as long as the rest is solid, can easily be welded properly

On the passenger side, check the sill seam underneath, a few inches back from the rear wheel arch

The panels are galvanised, but are getting to the age where there nothing left of the coating it's sacrificial

If it's not bubbling or already been patched here you can normally get at least a few years out of the car