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Punto (Mk2/2b) Hello :d , got a tappets problem :(

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Punto (Mk2/2b) Hello :d , got a tappets problem :(

A

adricadly

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hello :D

this is my 1st time posting on this forum i have no idea how to use it LOL .

anyway i don't know if i'm posting in the right place but don't know where else to post :p .

i bought a fiat punto mk2 x reg 1.2 8v 5 door teseo blue around 2 months ago for £250
now for £250 we all know there was going to be problems for that price

this is what was wrong with it when i bought it
noisey tappets
breaks low
exhaust leak
scratches/scuffs
2 front tires bald
no oil

it is mot'd till 2013
no tax at the time of buying but taxed it asap.

i have been driving it since i bought it & i've changed the flex center pipe because that split :( only £20 quid new of ebay so bargain :) , done a oil change. my brakes are very low but i will be doing them friday (when i get paid) started overheating so i changed the thermostat cost £14 from my local motor shop with same day free delivery :) , about a week after i bought it some little f****er scratched all down the side :( . but the most annoying part is the valve clearances i have not been able to find anyone to fix it my local garage want £320 i can get a head gasket done cheaper than that! , i have been in touch with a few mobile mechanics most wont touch it as they say its a pain to do & one said he will do it if i get the new shims (but i know its not that simple just to get new shims i need to get them checked for measurements ect), i'm handy with tools & can do bits & bobs breaks oil change exhausts , body work paint ect ive always loved messing with cars repairing i love it :D . the valve noise is doing my head in & people are looking at me like my cars about the explode LOL . the thing is how do i get some new valve shims i have a feeler gauge to measure. but i don't know
what im doing with valve clearances never had to try i refuse to pay £320 for them to be done at a garage :bang:


please someone HELP ;)
if anybody who knows about these can do it or know how and you are round walsall bloxwich or birmingham ect way let me know :D.

p.s im sorry if ive posted this in the wrong section im new ;)
i know i really should not be driving it like this but i have no choice at the moment no other vehicle

looking forward to hearing from you lot
 
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not done tappets on them,but i would have thought they were hydraulic adjusters,old kak oil can stuff them up and the strainer in sump also , no oil in engine gives me a picture of sludge in rocker box and not getting lube service done enough,i bet the old oil coming out was smelly,anything like this?
 
it was acually very clean considering hardly any oil & not having a oil change for like a year & a half , the little bit of oil that accualy came out was not very bad to be honest , from looking at the haynes manual i downloaded it says only the 16v engines are hydraulic .

thanks for the reply & video :)
 
If the engine was like that one - i'd be spending hours fishing that lot out

and running lots of cheap oil and cleaners through that

I bet the oil filter was blocked - and switched to bypass - hence such high build up

its not just conjealed tho - its baked on which is worse....
Im surprised it even worked like that!!

ziggy
 
ok after a bit of research i think i've got the solution .

i need to jack up the right hand side of the car , engage 4th gear so the engine can be rotated , make sure the high point of the cam lobe is pointing up away from the cam follower , check the clearance with the feeler gauge until it is stiff but sliding fit & record the thickness which will represent the clearance of that valve , then turn the engine to check the next valve & repeat until all valves have been measured & recorded .

im sure the valve sequences are
inlet- 2-4-5-7
exhaust 1-3-6-8

& the ones that are not measuring up right i need to remove & check the sizes on the underneath of the shim to work out the sizes i need replacing.

the thing is what should the valve clearances be in the 1st place for inlet & exhaust :bang: if any body knows please let me know.

thanks :D
 
thanks fingers99 ile check out eurocarcare , i cant seem to find anything in Cinq/Sei FAQs/Guides that can help maybe its just me im still figuring this forum out LOL , you know anybody i could ring about what the clearances should be? , cheer's for the help peep's :).
 
ok guys ive measured the shims with the feeler gauge with the lobes pointing up

this is what im getting

inlet 2-4-5-7
inlet valve 2- 00.35mm
inlet valve 4- 00.30mm
inlet valve 5- 00.30mm
inlet valve 7- 00.30mm

exhaust 1-3-6-8

exhaust valve 1-00.40mm
exhaust valve 3-00.40mm
exhaust valve 6-00.40mm
exhaust valve 8-00.45mm

thats what im getting
i rekon its inlet 2
&
exhaust 8

hope to hear of you guys soon

cheer's
 
measured the shims with a micro meter there exactly as they should be same size as written underneath , so confused!!
 
Presume you mean you've measured the clearances and the shims
The inlet clearances look a bit tight , normal spec 0.40 +/- 0.05. The exhaust clearances are OK-ish , normal spec 0.45 +/-0.05. Exhausts run hotter and generally have larger cold clearances.
Generally the shims do not wear so you would measure the marked thickness even after some use. The idea is if the gap is too small you get a thinner shim to open it up. Say you want to open up an inlet from 0.30 to 0.40. You need a shim thinner than the one already in there by 0.10mm. So if the shim says 4.0 you need a 3.9. Shims are available from 3.2 to 4.7 and some places will even swap them.
 
again my haynes states this
Valve clearances 8v
Inlet ..................... 0.40 +- 0.05mm So basically your allowed .35 to .45
Exhaust.................0.45 +- 0.05 So again your allowed .40 to .50mm

the shims come in sizes 3.20 to 4.70mm in increments of 0.05mm

adricadly said:
ok guys ive measured the shims with the feeler gauge with the lobes pointing up

this is what im getting

inlet 2-4-5-7
inlet valve 2- 00.35mm (Within tolerances)
inlet valve 4- 00.30mm (out tolerances by 00.05mm min)
inlet valve 5- 00.30mm (out tolerances by 00.05mm min)
inlet valve 7- 00.30mm (out tolerances by 00.05mm min)

exhaust 1-3-6-8

exhaust valve 1-00.40mm (within tolerances)
exhaust valve 3-00.40mm (within tolerances)
exhaust valve 6-00.40mm (within tolerances)
exhaust valve 8-00.45mm (within tolerances)

thats what im getting
i rekon its inlet 2
&
exhaust 8
Im Seeing more the inlet valves mate

hope to hear of you guys soon

cheer's
Click to expand...

Tbh tho - if your going to replace the shims - you've got to take the whole top half of the head apart
So you might as well tighten the whole head up for the little extra work
But depends if you wanna do it on the cheap or not

Ziggy
 
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Yeah your right Ziggy, .30mm is too close and out of tolerance by .05mm! So all the .30mm ones are too close and would need smaller shims!
 
So its Inlet Valves 4,5,7 that would need slightly smaller shims by at least 0.05mm just to get into the lower tolerance. I would go 0.10mm smaller on the shims on valves 4,5,7 and 0.05mm smaller on valve 2. That way all Inlet valves would be 0.40mm Tolerance, right in the middle!

As for the exhaust valves, I would say that valves 1,3,6 are just in on the lower tolerance (0.40mm) But I would also decrease the shim sizes for these 3 valves by 0.05mm as well. That would then make all four of the Exhaust valves sit at 0.45mm tolerance!

So judging by the Math ONLY, I would suggest that all 8 valves would then be perfect! According to Inlet Tolerance of 0.40mm and Exhaust Tolerance of 0.45mm!

Happy Days, but if anyone would like to correct me just go ahead. As i am just going by the MATH!

Cheers n Beers

Mike
 
For anyone who is interested, I have worked out a method for removing the shims, without taking off the Cam, or Cam Belt. Simply by me using a long flat blade Screw Driver and a Short Stubby flat blade screw driver. I can also verify that the Shims are made from Hardened steel, so my Screw Driver didn't even put a mark on them! It's not the easiest of methods, however it worked for me, without buying any extra tools. I didn't even have to bend my driver either! Like I say I am on a budget lol! I will make a YouTube Video and post a link to it on this forum (If this Forum will let me?!) As its best that you just see what I am doing, rather than me trying to describe it.

Cheers

Mike
 
TheGoose2012 said:
For anyone who is interested, I have worked out a method for removing the shims, without taking off the Cam, or Cam Belt. Simply by me using a long flat blade Screw Driver and a Short Stubby flat blade screw driver. I can also verify that the Shims are made from Hardened steel, so my Screw Driver didn't even put a mark on them! It's not the easiest of methods, however it worked for me, without buying any extra tools. I didn't even have to bend my driver either! Like I say I am on a budget lol! I will make a YouTube Video and post a link to it on this forum (If this Forum will let me?!) As its best that you just see what I am doing, rather than me trying to describe it.

Cheers

Mike
Click to expand...

yes please
thank you
look forward to it
i love easy nice shortcuts:)
 
OK, so the Tappets have been done now as they arrived Yest. (Sat). Put them all in correctly, all seated perfectly. Re-Checked the tolerances using Metric Feeler Gauge. All 8 tappets are now in tolerance! I was quite happy with that result. Poured new oil all over the cam, and valves prior to re-fitting the new rocker cover gasket. Added 4 pea sized blobs of glue next to each cam lobe, to stop gasket leaking apparently 2 weeks later too... Filled her up to max oil level, using 10w-40 Semi Sinthetic oil. Re-assembled everything else. Started her up, allowed the normal first few seconds on tick over to allow oil to circulate engine properly. Stopped the engine, re-checked oil, topped upto max. level again. Started her up again, HOWEVER the engine is still tapping just as bad as before, if not slightly louder. Gave the engine a good drive up and down dual carrigeway, but when I got back the bastard engine is still tapping!

Engine does driver better, as I noticed that someone had reversed the ht leads on cylinder 1 and 4. Hence the prev. mis-fire. So engine does run better, and after me cleaning out everything on the SPI unit aswell. But still Tapping!

Does anyone have an ideas on what the hell is going on!

Cheers

Mike
 
are you sure its the tappets a rapping?
i had a 8 valve the other month made a terrible noise when revved up
only found the problem when engine in a 100 bits
the oil control rings were broken

have you checked the camshaft for worn lobes
 
I havent had the Cam shaft off as yet. The car has done 110000 miles aswell. But no service history of any kind, however my mum did tell me that the car has been tapping for some time now, prob 3 years or more. Engine taps all the time, whether its ticking over or being revved up. I dont even know how long the cam belt has been on for as theres no service history. But what I do know is, the ****ty Mech. that my mum used to use, who kept ripping her off, did replace the head gasket as that went, I think it was done under 10,000 miles ago. I am not sure if he replaced the cam belt then. I'd like to think that he did, as it does look in good condition.

Mike
 
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