Technical Heater Resistor (again...)

[Red Van Man]

For the first time in a Qubo I have a heater fan problem.

The fan won't work except on 3 or 4. Nothing on 1 and 2 although I'm sure after a lot of winding the rotary switch to and fro and A/C on and off a lot I think it works on 1 and 2 but it's a hassle and isn't how it should be! Does this sound like I need a new resistor pack? I've read through the chat on here about fitting and am happy to take things apart to repair it if that's the fix (Part 55702407 - £12.99 from eBay)

This car was in the Isle of Skye for 39k miles and I wonder about sea-air corrosion of things (contacts etc.?) as the rear lights were suspect until I changed 2-3 bulbs - the glass of them were covered in a bloom.

The error code is showing for the DPF (Engine Warning Light) and although I took the car back under its short warranty, the geezers at the dealers spent a day forcing regens and doing nothing, the light still comes on. I do a lot of motorway driving which would keep a DPF happy...where is it located? On the exhaust run under the car or somewhere tucked behind in the engine bay? I want it to go in and have a new one fitted..

Any info appreciated - thanks!

R-V-M

 

[Matt Quinn]

...My first thought would be an intermittent contact on the switch; so maybe try some electrical contact cleaner (not WD 40 or the like; proper contact cleaner like Serisol or De-oxit) first. - Worth a go at least. Electrical contacts do oxidise; but maybe not so much in the sense of 'corrosion' as such. Contact cleaners such as Servisol will break up common oxides (as found in switchgear) and apply a light lubricants which is safe for the plastics.

'Other stuff' may work sort-of... but might lead to other problems; I once knew an eijit who caused thousands of pounds worth of damage to a large/classic Langley audio mixing desk by applying motorcycle spray lube to the faders! Worked fine on his gran's transistor radio apparently! - This basically destroyed the thing as the plastics cracked up and disintegrated - plus there was an oily pool in the bottom of the cabinet!

 

[Red Van Man]

...My first thought would be an intermittent contact on the switch; so maybe try some electrical contact cleaner (not WD 40 or the like; proper contact cleaner like Serisol or De-oxit) first. - Worth a go at least. Electrical contacts do oxidise; but maybe not so much in the sense of 'corrosion' as such. Contact cleaners such as Servisol will break up common oxides (as found in switchgear) and apply a light lubricants which is safe for the plastics.

'Other stuff' may work sort-of... but might lead to other problems; I once knew an eijit who caused thousands of pounds worth of damage to a large/classic Langley audio mixing desk by applying motorcycle spray lube to the faders! Worked fine on his gran's transistor radio apparently! - This basically destroyed the thing as the plastics cracked up and disintegrated - plus there was an oily pool in the bottom of the cabinet!

Thanks for the note on dirty contacts Matt, I usually do look for that especially when a replacement part costs money and when I've read around that access is difficult but in this case I did change the resistor and it was that which was at fault.

All good now (fanwise)!

The car's just come back from being in the garage to try and diagnose an error throwing the engine warning light (far too vague..) and all they could tell me was an 'Undocumented Fault' as their OBD reader is for more general coverage than in-depth specifics of Fiat Foibles. I still suspect the DPF is giving grief from too many short runs and the exhaust stuff not getting to temp often enough. More discussions about deleting of EGR, AdBlue and DPF... If only these things could happen..

R-V-M

 

[Matt Quinn]

Thanks for the note on dirty contacts Matt, I usually do look for that especially when a replacement part costs money and when I've read around that access is difficult but in this case I did change the resistor and it was that which was at fault.

All good now (fanwise)!

The car's just come back from being in the garage to try and diagnose an error throwing the engine warning light (far too vague..) and all they could tell me was an 'Undocumented Fault' as their OBD reader is for more general coverage than in-depth specifics of Fiat Foibles. I still suspect the DPF is giving grief from too many short runs and the exhaust stuff not getting to temp often enough. More discussions about deleting of EGR, AdBlue and DPF... If only these things could happen..

R-V-M

Yup... I think if I ever get mine going again I'll be looking that direction too; deleting the EGR I mean. I do too many short journeys too.

 

[Red Van Man]

Yup... I think if I ever get mine going again I'll be looking that direction too; deleting the EGR I mean. I do too many short journeys too.

Well it's not so much short journeys for me as I drive to Sheffield from J2 M180 and back daily so it gets a good hot run. Today I notice as I was doing 68-70 (timed visit at other end so unusually doing 70 - usually c 60mph on my dailies) and I saw the smoke out of the back window from my own exhaust. This is the first diesel I've ever had which smokes. Don't like it!

The tech guys said the DPF wasn't at fault but I do suspect it from the quiet life this car's had on the Isle of Skye, also maybe the crappy EGR has fouled up the intake and causing blockages? What else causes the Engine Warning light to come on about 30-40 miles after clearing it? It's done that about 5 times now and the local Indie stated this 'Undocumented Fault' last time. I could get a fix on the drive firm to do a manifold clean (EGR etc) if that would help as a trial - the DPF clean-out is c £300 I think...

Lot of outlay for guesswork

R-V-M

 

[jackwhoo]

If the mil is on then the ecu has fault codes that can be read.
To me it sounds like a code number / s are being read but the code reader does not have a definition programmed to translate the code into english/mechanic speak....someone is being lazy.

Multiecuscan can read codes to two further digits than a ordinary code reader
Plus translate the codes .

 

[jackwhoo]

It is very costly to guess at why the mil illuminates and pay to fix the guess as to why the mil on.

 

[portland_bill]

If the garage cannot interpret the codes, they cannot properly force a regen. The diagnostics needed to force the regen will read the codes.
If the DPF is clogged beyond a set level, a normal regen may not work. The smoke on the motorway could be the regen occurring, but not a complete cure.
Needs someone nearby with MES to first, read the codes, then, if appropriate, do a forced regen. Re-read codes.
There have been reports of DPF sensor issues, but don't replace the sensor on guesswork.

There used to be a manual forced regen procedure. Have a good look at the handbook, it used to describe it in some.
Last time I saw this in print was several years ago, so this is from memory. Follow at your own risk.
Select a good location. There will be noise, and smoke. If tailpipe points down, consider what is below, as a lot of heat is produced. (Did this with a friend's Croma, melted a puddle of tar about a foot across.)
Get engine to normal operating temperature.
Open bonnet. (Lets heat out) Ensure bonnet is secure, so be wary of winds.
With engine off, press clutch and accelerator fully down, and hold while starting engine. Engine should start normally, and revs then gently rise. Release pedals, and wait. Revs will rise to about 2500rpm and hold.
Wait, don't touch anything. (If all seems to be going as described)
Revs will hold for up to 15 minutes, while regen takes place. Neighbours may be upset. (With the Croma mentioned above, a neighbour nicely chose to cut his grass, with the noisiest mower on earth, nicely masking our noise) Regen warning light should be flashing during this time)
When done, engine revs will gently drop to normal, and warning light will extinguish.
All done.

I've not owned one of these, just done a lot of work with a company that owned a fleet of them. I think I've remembered this correctly. Important things, no room for them in my brain.

 

[Red Van Man]

Thanks @portland_bill for the notes.

I too wonder why a MES wouldn't describe what the fault is or at least give a fault code that can be checked. On a previous visit I know the guy got a number off the MES display and then he looked online on his phone (?!) which seems a bit of a weird method of how to do it. I'd hate to go round and accuse them of being lazy.
A smoky exhaust is not my favourite way of driving as I cuss at people who drive leaving a black cloud in their wake!

The expert firm where I took it for a DPF washout initially (on my local Indie's recommendation following the not-very-clear ECU reading - and they were very professional) said that the fault the novice lad was reading before handing the ECUscan to the boss, was not the DPF but the clutch position sensor! He looked above the pedal and found the sensor was swinging in the breeze having slid off its mounting rail. (That might account for the cruise control not coming on at times prior to it falling off I guess.)
So that was replaced and the codes cleared, the MIL light went off and he said I didn't need the DPF washing out (saved some £250-300?) but within a day the light was back on. I took the car next door (Indie) the week after and that was when I was told 'Undiagnosed Error' was showing. The MIL light was cleared (again) and off I went, it came on again within about 50-70 miles.

I feel a trip back to the expert company is the best answer to this. Since there are not any "FIAT" garages that specialise any more I guess a proper independent shop doing diagnoses of issues are the guys with the best ECUscanning tech machinery. The pro workshop guy I went to said that their scanner was top notch and expensive in order to be able to drill down into the codes better than a general garage. It's like a Consultant Car Electrical Engineer vs a General Garage bod who knows about a lot of various things whereas the specialist is always doing the specific items and knows his subject and has the tools for the job.

I might try the DIY regen and see if it makes any difference although the MIL light will still be on won't it? I have read about that method so your memory is right

Any more info or suggestions would be welcomed if anyone else has had this issue. I've done many longer trips now so the car is used to getting properly hot whereas before I doubt that was happening where it lived.

R-V-M

If the garage cannot interpret the codes, they cannot properly force a regen. The diagnostics needed to force the regen will read the codes.
If the DPF is clogged beyond a set level, a normal regen may not work. The smoke on the motorway could be the regen occurring, but not a complete cure.
Needs someone nearby with MES to first, read the codes, then, if appropriate, do a forced regen. Re-read codes.
There have been reports of DPF sensor issues, but don't replace the sensor on guesswork.

There used to be a manual forced regen procedure. Have a good look at the handbook, it used to describe it in some.
Last time I saw this in print was several years ago, so this is from memory. Follow at your own risk.
Select a good location. There will be noise, and smoke. If tailpipe points down, consider what is below, as a lot of heat is produced. (Did this with a friend's Croma, melted a puddle of tar about a foot across.)
Get engine to normal operating temperature.
Open bonnet. (Lets heat out) Ensure bonnet is secure, so be wary of winds.
With engine off, press clutch and accelerator fully down, and hold while starting engine. Engine should start normally, and revs then gently rise. Release pedals, and wait. Revs will rise to about 2500rpm and hold.
Wait, don't touch anything. (If all seems to be going as described)
Revs will hold for up to 15 minutes, while regen takes place. Neighbours may be upset. (With the Croma mentioned above, a neighbour nicely chose to cut his grass, with the noisiest mower on earth, nicely masking our noise) Regen warning light should be flashing during this time)
When done, engine revs will gently drop to normal, and warning light will extinguish.
All done.

I've not owned one of these, just done a lot of work with a company that owned a fleet of them. I think I've remembered this correctly. Important things, no room for them in my brain.

 

[jackwhoo]

Are you sure one of the guys you went to had mes ( multiecuscan ) software on a computer ? Used it on your vehicle? And it gave a code but with no definition?

I'm glad to read that at least an attempt to look up a code definition on www was made .

 

[portland_bill]

I would think, that if they read the code but needed to look elsewhere for more information, they were not using MES. It seems that only the most expensive diagnostic systems will read Fiats, so most garages do not subscribe, unless they see enough to justify it. It would instil more confidence if they openly admitted that they could not read Fiats, rather than guessing.
The clutch switch, having fallen off once, may need replacing. Have you checked it is still in place this time? If its fixings let go once, they may never hold properly again.