General Head Gasket Help - 1108 MPI

[gp3000000]

Ahh OK thanks guys. The end is in sight...

Just had a panic moment while refitting the coil packs. I know 1 & 4 and 2 & 3 are paired, but which coil pack does 1&4 and which does 2&3? The length of the leads seems to suggest:

(Standing in front of the car)

1&4 = Front coil pack
2&3 = Rear coil pack

Is this correct?

EDIT - done a search and it appears it's the other way round, LOL

 

[rallycinq]

It depends on the other plugs which can be switched too, so go one way, if it fires back through the TB swap them.

Cheers

SPD

 

[gp3000000]

Somewhere I've messed up.

Everything was reconnected; and I've tried to start the car. It started after several turns but is running on 2 cylinders (might have been 3) with the Engine Management light permanently on. Damn.

So, what could it be?

- It can't be the crank pulley because I've made that mistake before (putting it on 1/3 of a turn out) and I triple checked this time! (Plus last time it didn't even start when I got this wrong)
- The timing, I lined up the marks on cam pulley with the mark on head, and the same with the crank pulley, and with the belt lines, rotated the engine by hand at least 6 times and for every 2 turns of the crank the cam wheel turned once, and the marks lined up every 2nd time the crank went round.
- The HT leads, I have connected them (BACK OF ENGINE BAY 4 1 2 3 FRONT OF ENGINE BAY), am I right in thinking it would fail to start if I'd swapped the LT leads or put the leads on the wrong packs (there was no fire in TB)
- The injectors, all plugs are pushed firmly on with the metal clips fitted. They are in the right order, the leads won't reach to allow you to fit them round the wrong way!
- The crank sensor was never disconnected or moved
- The other wire which goes down the side of the cam belt cover (other than the crank sensor wire) this wire goes to a plug with a single terminal, this has been checked and is plugged in (think it is to do with the oil pump)
- All TB connections have been checked and it appears that there is no possible way of mixing up the plugs, also there are no plugs which are unplugged.
- The cam wheel sensor (this is an MPI) is plugged in. Something has just occured to me. The place that skimmed the head *supposedly* took the cam pulley off. I say supposedly as it is perfectly possible he took the cam out whilst still connected to the pulley, but if he dismantled them could he have put the cam pulley back at a different position to the cam? Therefore making the cam position sensor read the gaps on the wheel wrongly?

Any help greatly appreciated,

Thanks,

GP3000000 (Annoyed and a bit panicky)

 

[levemircento]

cam wheel will only fit one way, if its like an SPI one

heres a pic of a cam and wheel I use as a paperweight on my desk, you can see a slot in the wheel and there is a key in the cam that fits it

 

[gp3000000]

Ah ok that makes sense, so it's not that then.
Tomorrow I will take pictures of my timing marks and post them up, even though I'm sure it's correct, because last year I was 100% sure the alt. pulley could go on any way I liked... and I was wrong then so...

 

[rallycinq]

OK, get it running (badly) and remove and replace each plug lead in turn (use insulated pliers) to find which cylinders are not working.

Cheers

SPD

 

[levemircento]

this is from my autodata cd if its any use

 

[gp3000000]

OK, get it running (badly) and remove and replace each plug lead in turn (use insulated pliers) to find which cylinders are not working.

Will do. After I've done that, I have come across a spare (new) coil pack I can swap out with if I find it's a pair of cylinders not working.

Thanks for the pic Levemir, it provides a different perspective on the timing marks to the others, but I am still sure that's how I had it

At least I have 4 work-free days to try and sort this out...

 

[fingers99]

Do as RC says, then check for fuel out of the injectors. Doesn't sound like timing to me, most likely to be leads/coil pack/plugs.

 

[gp3000000]

Well I did what was suggested, and started the car, pulled off plug lead no.4 (easiest to get to, no other reason I started there!) The engine note did not change. The plug lead sparked against the cam cover, even from a distance away!

Then I pulled off no.1. No change in engine note here either. But upon putting the lead against the cam cover it would NOT spark. At all. In despair I put the lead back on the plug, and suddenly the engine started running normally! (But still rough idling, which the car has always done!) The Engine Management light went out too.

I then got in the car, in the time I was doing this the engine started much rougher idling than I have ever seen before. But no Engine Management light.

I drove around the block, the car is very hesitant up until you really rev it. Then it seems smoother, but still missing! Letting the revs drop makes the car run really rough, e.g. changing from 3rd to 4th. It's bunny-hopping at low revs, but it's not the clutch it's the engine doing it!

I have also lost brake servo it seems, which was quite a shock when approaching the end of the road, brakes are like they are when you're being towed and the engine is off.

So may it be that no.1 is getting a weaker spark due to coil pack or leads? Or something vaccum-related, hence the servo problem?

Or timing?

 

[ycming]

turn the car on at light if u see blue spark then it will be lead, but this is more likly to the coil pack.

and IIRC there was a batch of dodgy MPI ECU which relates to coil problem ?


Ming

 

[rallycinq]

Pop number 4 plug out and check the gap is correct and it hasn't been dropped.

Retrace the route of the servo pipe and make sure its attached and not leaking A leak here will lead to rough running.

Recheck cam timing.

Cheers

SPD

 

[gp3000000]

I've rechecked the cam timing, here are the photos:

EDIT - I should point out that the engine has not moved in between taking any of these photos

From some angles the cam pulley looks to be way out, from some angles it looks just a little bit out, I think this is like when you are a passenger in a car you can see a different speed on the speedometer than the driver because of the angle of viewing. But there are no photos which show it exactly lining up with the mark on the head. In fact in some it looks like it would line up better one tooth further on...

The bottom pulley appears to be correct; I've just lined it up with where the metal changes shape into a groove (where the lower belt cover fits into), this is right isn't it?

 

[levemircento]

the servo vac pipe needs looking into if you arent getting any servo assistance at the pedal, as rallycinq says

 

[gp3000000]

I've had a look at that, the pipe I'm looking at is a black pipe exiting the TB on the RHS and entering the servo at a right-angle. It appears to be OK.

But what about the timing? Does it look correct to you?

 

[Pep0]

I degrease and use ruler & tippex if there are not bolt holes to lock the crank and cam in place, an inspection mirror allows viewing at right angles.

If you got no servo then the vaccum pipe has a problem (or the servo) or you have connected it incorrectly.

Noel

 

[ycming]

is that servo pipe suppose to have a 90 degree bend like that ~~ ?

Ming

 

[gp3000000]

ycming - It's always been like that for as long as I've had the car, maybe it's a non-standard pipe?

Pep0 - I never disconnected the pipe as it's not neccessary to take the TB off on the MPI as it doesn't get in the way when replacing HG.

 

[rallycinq]

Timing looks fine

Brake problem would concern me.

Cheers

SPD

Edit

Silly thought. Are all the manifold O rings on place and the manifold tight but not cracked? An air leak around the manifold would cause the car to run badly and not give enough sook at the servo.

Cheers

 

[gp3000000]

I replaced the O rings with the new ones that came in the kit, couldn't see any evidence of cracking in the manifold when I took it off, and tightened up the bolts tight. Before I replaced the O- rings I cleaned out the groove they sit in as it was covered in black gunk, petrol and oil. (Doesn't seem to be a specific torque setting for them; or if there is I couldn't find it.)

Got a new set of HT leads coming tomorrow, I figured it's easy enough just to change them and see if it makes a difference (mate works in an ignitiom parts place so it's easy to get stuff to try/on loan.

Was going to go and check the plugs, however despite the clear weather forecast we now have a thunderstorm.