Technical Head Gasket Faliure? Compression and Symptoms Inside :)

[randomizered]

Well, timing was spot on so no worries there.

I have now got down too removing the exhaust manifold, then its just the cylinder head bolts and stage one is complete!

Took fours hours of my time today, 4-8 and was a bit of a bitch to be honest.

I'm really struggling with the exhaust manifold bolts. The top ones are fine, but the lower ones have VERY little access. It's taken me about 2 hours to remove all but one!! Are there any techniques to make the last one easier, as it did me in tonight, I need a beer and some chips now

Love the omissions and errors in the haynes manual lol.


Hopefully assembly will be easier than stripping it down, at the moment i wish i got the crap garage to fix it lol.

OT : Test drove a punto 1.4 sport, and panda 100hp today, and in a few weeks may be getting a 100hp. so there will be three years of warranty reapirs

Kristian

 

[arc]

ratchet spanners, or a wibble joint and extension bar for the ratchet

 

[randomizered]

Ratchet spanners, check. Wibble joint, no check. May get one too see if it helps

Looks like bumper off may also help, but as the manifold is so large, as it contains the cat, there is no real access from underneath.

Looks like I'll just have to grin and bear it! Torquing back up will be interesting though I won't actually need to remove the manifold though will I?!

Cheers for your help

Kristian

 

[arc]

i know the sei mpi is different, with the cat being near the manifold - but what i did when working with my old std exhaust system was leave the manifold bolted to the head and just unbolt it from where it joins the downpipe. is that an option on the sei?

 

[rallycinq]

i know the sei mpi is different, with the cat being near the manifold - but what i did when working with my old std exhaust system was leave the manifold bolted to the head and just unbolt it from where it joins the downpipe. is that an option on the sei?

Exactly what I was thinking, and then noticed it was a mark 2. Might still be an option, we'll need to wait until Kristian has finished his chips.

Cheers

D

 

[StoneNewt]

Love the omissions and errors in the haynes manual lol.

Unless Haynes released Mk2 Sei manual the cinq one is sometimes totally out of date when it comes to the Mk2 Sei .

Hopefully assembly will be easier than stripping it down, at the moment i wish i got the crap garage to fix it lol.

Nope, unless you're gonna install a Mk1 style manifold and cat it's just as pig awful putting it on as taking the manifold off.

Ratchet spanners, check. Wibble joint, no check. May get one too see if it helps

Looks like bumper off may also help, but as the manifold is so large, as it contains the cat, there is no real access from underneath.

I found that two universals helped a lot but then again I didn't have a useful length extension bar . I think the bumper off does help, though as I never took the manifold of the 1242cc w/out the bumper attached it might have just been that it's easier on the 1108cc unit.


The Mk2 manifold is a single piece from the exhaust outlet, down the block and going under the engine it's a pita to do anything with and yet another good reason to dump the MPI style manifold and go for the SPI one.

 

[randomizered]

All local chip shops closed!!!! Bummer...still a few beers and a pizza have slipped down nicely :slayer:


With regard to leaving it bolted on, StoneNewt is right, the manifold is rubbish. You have the four exhast outlets, which all merge to a single outlet that housedsthe cat. The cat is in the down pipe section, and is about 15-20cm wide, it then carries on under the engine, and all the way up to the flexy way past the engine. I doubt there is any way it will be removable without lifting the car WAY up in the air, else it'll hit the ground. It is a stupid design tbh. If your cat dies you not only need the cat, but also the manifold. Bet they cost ££.


I'd love to fit a different manifold on refitting, but as i may be getting rid, i don't really want the outlay.

I'll just keeptrying and trying At least its nearly all out!


Just too check with you knowledgable peeps, as I'll be ordering from FIAT tommorrow morn, I'm going for:

Head Gasket Set
Cylinder head bolts
New thermostat
New water pump

Fluids etc I'm good for already, and an oil filter.


Once done i will run a few hundred with new coolant, oils and filter, then change it again to help remove any residual crap. Sounds sensible?

Cheers,

Kristian

 

[col7104]

If you're gonna overhaul the head while it's off you'll need a new camshaft oil seal.

Don't use nice oil if you're just going to bin it after a while

 

[arc]

you want some sillicone stuff to seal the water pump too. And i'd do the cam belt and tensioner too.

 

[StoneNewt]

I'd flush the coolant system through with hose until it runs through with clear water, when that's done I'd use flushing oil before filling the engine with the good stuff.

 

[randomizered]

Is that not included in the gasket kit then? I'll add it too the list And no, it'll be some cheap oil, just to help clean the gunk and water out. I don't really want it hanging about in there

 

[col7104]

And if it's part number 46750865 you want for the belt then check in the classifieds

 

[randomizered]

Yeah, I forgot, cam belt, tensioner, and alternator belt were on the list as well

I would check the classifieds, but dealer can get it all in next day, and i want it done asap. Head will be off tomorrow, and into machine shop wed morning, hopefully for collection that night.....on my push bike :slayer:

Kristian

 

[randomizered]

Well, all the parts are on order. I got alternator belt and timing belt/tensioner as well.

Out of convinience and the fact I can't afford the time for a wrong part, I went with FIAT main dealer. I know I could have got cheaper from factors, but they couldn't get all the bits in next day whereas FIAT can The only bit they needed to oder in was the gasket kit set.

For about £160 I ordered:

Gasket Set (63.23)
Thermostat (14.93)
Water Pump (30.08)
Cylinder Bolts (19.98)
Cam belt (34.29)
Tensioner (included in cost of belt)
alternator belt (8-ish,)


I rang around some engine specialists in town, and a skim can be done for £29, same day service They said i can leave the cam/valve etc in, and they'll sort it. If i took it out myself, I'd need valve spring compressors etc? and would have to make sure they were the correct order.

Just need to get home and get the thing stripped now. My target is to have it done by wed or thurs

For a total cost just shy of £200, I don't think its too bad

Kristian

 

[rallycinq]

Good work, and good attitude too.

Cheers

D

 

[randomizered]

Well, firstly for those wondering about removing the head with the manifold:



hope you can see how far back it goes!

Still I managed to get the bolts out of the head and ended up with the following:

The pistons!

notice how they all have a helthy carbon build up apart from the left one which was wet and covered in sticky oil!



The valves on a good piston:



The valves on a bad one:



The culprit?



Is this gasket healthy? I think the crack is a waterway passage?

 

[randomizered]

Must sleep now, as I am cycling the head, cam, and rocker cover (to help prevent oil drips) down to a local machinist before work i old money, 2 stone 5lb PLUS my usual stuff on my back as well! Man its gonna be a hard day!

I'll update with more pics at a later date. Lots taken, but as the gallery is down, imageshack is the only easy option and it takes too long!

Kristian

 

[fingers99]

The culprit?

Is this gasket healthy? I think the crack is a waterway passage?

The round hole is an oilway, the more oval one a water gallery. Really you need to see both sides of the gasket without all the oil to determine what happened, but cylinder 1 does not look good. 4 doesn't exactly inspire confidence, either.

If the machine shop is stripping/re-assembling the head, I'd ask them to fit the new valve oil seals while they're at it.

 

[randomizered]

Yep, I'm getting the valve seals done by him, and also the cam seal. He said He could have got the whole gasket kit, including the cam seal for £25 for me, with an hour or two! Sadly as its a special order form FIATm, theres no returns :bang:

Never mind though. Hopefully I will ahve the head back today, nice and clean and milled!

Will post piccies when i get it back

 

[randomizered]

Just found a great thread in the Punto section here that really ties in with my results. Funny coolant, funny smell, loss of water, but not much oil mayo. Makes me feel happy to see it also mentions no is most common and that there will probably be no carbon left on that piston.

The head wasn't ready today, so hopefully it will be ready tomorrow

To tide myself over i'm going to clean the block tonight, just the mating surface really and possibly the pistons, but is it really worth cleaning the carbon off, or just leaving it on there? If I do clean it off, anything to look out for?

Kristian