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Oohhh, I saw you mentioned cam cover and thought you meant retorqueing the cover bolts. You sure it's coming from the HG?
Technical Head Gasket Faliure? Compression and Symptoms Inside :)
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Technical Head Gasket Faliure? Compression and Symptoms Inside :)
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Yeah, I'm sure it was, hopefully after retorquing it won't any more..looks like it has come from there before as there was loads of old gunky/dirty oil all down the front of the engine from years gone by.
It's def not from the cam cover seal, as that was fully cleaned when it was machined, so, it would be obvious..it sure looked like it was the HG and I can't see where else it would be from. Cam seal was replaced, and i took the belt covers off, and it was clean in there.
Kristian
It's def not from the cam cover seal, as that was fully cleaned when it was machined, so, it would be obvious..it sure looked like it was the HG and I can't see where else it would be from. Cam seal was replaced, and i took the belt covers off, and it was clean in there.
Kristian
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Haven't got a clue how to help I'm afraid. Have to wait for someone with more knowledge Are you 100% sure it's oil. How are the fluid levels? Sort of stabbing in the dark here but did the HG go on the right way, ALTO facing up?
Are you 100% sure it's oil. How are the fluid levels? Sort of stabbing in the dark here but did the HG go on the right way, ALTO facing up?- Joined
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Yeah, its definatly nasty oil
The gasket didn't say alto on it, but it did say fiat. I put this facing upward. I'm sure this was the right way, as it isn't symetrical, and the differences on either end match up with the block/head patterns. Maybe it is slightly different as it is MPI?
Kristian
The gasket didn't say alto on it, but it did say fiat. I put this facing upward. I'm sure this was the right way, as it isn't symetrical, and the differences on either end match up with the block/head patterns. Maybe it is slightly different as it is MPI?
Kristian
I know its a bit late now, but you should have checked the holes in the gasket matched the holes in the block.
However, if you had missed an oilway, the pressure would have been obvious with oil being forced out, not just dribbling.
Has the oil level dropped in the engine?
Cheers
D
However, if you had missed an oilway, the pressure would have been obvious with oil being forced out, not just dribbling.
Has the oil level dropped in the engine?
Cheers
D
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I did check all of the holes matched up before i installed it and they looked fine.
It was slowly weeping out of the gasket, no noticeable difference in oil level over that short period, but some has def come out.
It really has me confused. The head was machined, new gasket, torqued and turned to spec and yet oil is seeping out, but no water is seeping out as far as I can tell, although that'd evaporate quick. Coolant level remains fine as well.
Finger crossed it doesn't leak anymore, else all I can think is that the block is somehow warped/damaged near the oilway at the front, but it all looked fine to me.
Cars, don't you just love 'em
Getting the old "told you so" off my mother as well, parents don't you just love them as well
Kristian
It was slowly weeping out of the gasket, no noticeable difference in oil level over that short period, but some has def come out.
It really has me confused. The head was machined, new gasket, torqued and turned to spec and yet oil is seeping out, but no water is seeping out as far as I can tell, although that'd evaporate quick. Coolant level remains fine as well.
Finger crossed it doesn't leak anymore, else all I can think is that the block is somehow warped/damaged near the oilway at the front, but it all looked fine to me.
Cars, don't you just love 'em
Getting the old "told you so" off my mother as well, parents don't you just love them as well
Kristian
I've just sent my mother home on the train, so I'll not see her for a while.
I presume you torqued up the bolts by the book. I am surprised you managed to tighten them more.
A little warm oil goes a long way (oooerr missus) so it might be nothing much at all. Accurately check the oil level when cold on a level surface, and check it again 20 miles later.
If oil is coming out in significant quantity, you can smell it.
Cheers
D
I presume you torqued up the bolts by the book. I am surprised you managed to tighten them more.
A little warm oil goes a long way (oooerr missus) so it might be nothing much at all. Accurately check the oil level when cold on a level surface, and check it again 20 miles later.
If oil is coming out in significant quantity, you can smell it.
Cheers
D
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Yeah, I followed the sequence, 30Nm, the 90 degrees, then 90 degrees. I gave them all a further 90-180 tonight, so hopefully it'll be ok. Some felt like they could still turn further though, but I am scared of threadin/shearing a bolt
What are typical torques on older engines where they don't specify degree turns? I can check too see if im in the right ball park then or drastically over/under.
Kristian
What are typical torques on older engines where they don't specify degree turns? I can check too see if im in the right ball park then or drastically over/under.
Kristian
Bummer!
Did you oil the threads?
On this forum somewhere are the Punto torque settings which -- strangely -- seem to be higher.
Tell your mum, "He who never made mistakes never made anything."
Did you oil the threads?
On this forum somewhere are the Punto torque settings which -- strangely -- seem to be higher.
Tell your mum, "He who never made mistakes never made anything."
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Yeah, I used the punto torques. I also oiled and drained the bolts and dried the bolt holes like the haynes said. Did it without cutting any corners, hence my annoyance lol.
TOday will be the real test, lets hope its ok now.
Love the quote, will have to remember that
Kristian
TOday will be the real test, lets hope its ok now.
Love the quote, will have to remember that
Kristian
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Just checked and it still leaks
Now, I have to decide, do i pull it again, and refit a new gasket, with new bolts..again.. or do I take it to a garage. MOT is Friday So I may not get it done in time either way...ooppss..
Kristian
Now, I have to decide, do i pull it again, and refit a new gasket, with new bolts..again.. or do I take it to a garage. MOT is Friday
So I may not get it done in time either way...ooppss..Kristian
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i have a few more bike rides and late nights and pulled it all apart after work tonight. Amazing how much quicker it goes once you've done it once
I took a few nice pics for everyone
The obvious HG leak:
Running down the busy side of the engine and down to the sump:
After the head was off again, the oil over the gasket is obvious at the front side, where it was leaking through :
A close up:
The other end:
The underside of the gasket and some sexy fingers (not fingers99 )
The head after removal:
I took a few nice pics for everyone
The obvious HG leak:
Running down the busy side of the engine and down to the sump:
After the head was off again, the oil over the gasket is obvious at the front side, where it was leaking through
:A close up:
The other end:
The underside of the gasket and some sexy fingers
(not fingers99 )The head after removal:
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I'm not sure why it leaked, but I did spot the ALTO this time which was the correct way up
there was still a bit of liquid in the bolt holes that i thought i cleaned up, so perhaps that was causing the bolts to not go down fully (air would be pushed out easier?)
Maybe it was the god damn awful twit, Jamie T, that was on the radio when i was torquing causing me to loose count/concentration
I got a good old school metal rule and checked the block, and by sight looks straight, so thats cool!
Lets hope I'm second time lucky, and it all goes together well
I'm going to highlight what i think are the waterways/oilways, can someone concur? Post the pic in 5 mins.
Kristian
there was still a bit of liquid in the bolt holes that i thought i cleaned up, so perhaps that was causing the bolts to not go down fully (air would be pushed out easier?)
Maybe it was the god damn awful twit, Jamie T, that was on the radio when i was torquing causing me to loose count/concentration
I got a good old school metal rule and checked the block, and by sight looks straight, so thats cool!
Lets hope I'm second time lucky, and it all goes together well
I'm going to highlight what i think are the waterways/oilways, can someone concur? Post the pic in 5 mins.
Kristian
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Ok,
this is my take on things, but its probably wrong
Blue is waterways, I don't care on direction or pressure, they are fine now
Green are bolt holes (note to self, make sure to dry and clean thread again)
Red are oilways, are they simply drain holes for the cam oil rail - Purple highlighted?
If that is correct. If the purple was blocked, then no oil would get into the head, which isn't the case so rules that out.
If the drain oil ways were blocked, the pressure would blow the oil cap off. The are visibly clear and seems to drain ok.
Is all that correct. If so, I'll give it another go tomorrow. not a fiat gasket this time though, the machinist (great film btw), said the after market he gets are just as good, and i can't afford to chuck any more money away at this stage. New bolts again as well
not disheartened though, its all a learning curve I WON'T be defeated lol
Kristian
this is my take on things, but its probably wrong
Blue is waterways, I don't care on direction or pressure, they are fine now
Green are bolt holes (note to self, make sure to dry and clean thread again)
Red are oilways, are they simply drain holes for the cam oil rail - Purple highlighted?
If that is correct. If the purple was blocked, then no oil would get into the head, which isn't the case so rules that out.
If the drain oil ways were blocked, the pressure would blow the oil cap off. The are visibly clear and seems to drain ok.
Is all that correct. If so, I'll give it another go tomorrow. not a fiat gasket this time though, the machinist (great film btw), said the after market he gets are just as good, and i can't afford to chuck any more money away at this stage. New bolts again as well
not disheartened though, its all a learning curve
I WON'T be defeated lolKristian
Did you fit the cam bearing caps on the right way round?
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TBH I don't know what they are lol, I couldn't be arsed fiddling with the cam, taking it out etc, spring compressors, so when it was skimmed, i paid for cam removal, new cam seal, new valve whatevers (small and green). He seemed to know his stuff, so I'm sure it was put back right? Can you explain what you mean more?
Kristian
Kristian
The cam bearing caps (3 off) have the oil feed pipe going to them. The oil passes around the bolts and through a cut out in the bearing cap. If you put them on the wrong way round then the oil won't get to lubricate the cam.
I'm thinking that they are not fitted correctly and the oil pressure is building up and blowing out the head gasket.
You can't get the end ones wrong but the middle one you can.
I'm thinking that they are not fitted correctly and the oil pressure is building up and blowing out the head gasket.
You can't get the end ones wrong but the middle one you can.
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These?
If so I just check and the are the correct way round.
If so I just check and the are the correct way round.
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Yep! Check the middle one. Undo only the oil feed bolt, swing pipe out the way then remove the last middle bolt leaving the other two end ones to hold the cam in.
Maybe Fiat supplied you with a crap gasket?
