Gateshead Council V Alex R

[custard]

i didn't start the line of court, i forgot about the whole thing till i got the letter, like i've said though i'll go to keep them happy, got a few things i could do afterwards in gateshead so it's alright lol

yes you did,by thinking if you ignored it it would disappear

 

[sgh1970]

Sorry but i think your whole attitude towards this stinks , it all started from your animal,Youve looked into this more than your letting on if youve decided to transfer the ownership of your car, youve relised thats the only thing they can claim from you .

 

[custard]

well we have seen a few threads where (IMO) alexs attitude shines through
never his fault,always unfair etc etc

 

[x Alex x]

well we have seen a few threads where (IMO) alexs attitude shines through
never his fault,always unfair etc etc

sorry but.. lol

 

[AppleSei]

cba to go into it anymore, i think it's all been pretty much covered. i'll go tommorow so i can laugh at how overdrawn this proscess is and that i'll most likely get off without paying anything.

they will take something, like mobile phone, tv etc, send the bailiffs in to lift it, anything what they believe is the same value as the fine if you cant pay it and prove you have no means of paying it

I too think you have looked into it as well and looked at johnw's summary posted the other week about other possessions being taken into account, hence selling the car, but we only have your word for that, i wouldnt be suprised if theres a made up receipt somewhere, its not hard to write out a quick receipt and the cars back under your ownership within a few weeks.

I mean your g/f is going to back you for starters and will help wherever she can

We can only speculate about that though because youll never tell us and also i think this is why you havent commented much on this thread since johnw started posting is because you know he is talking sense but too proud to say its a fair enough cop

 

[x Alex x]

gateshead council 0 - alex 1.

nearly got another bloody fine for parking at the court lol.

 

[jenks69]

Not so bad afterall.

Tell more about the near miss for a parking fine??? Let me guess you parked somewhere you shouldn't?

 

[ThisBitterPill]

You sound like such an admirable citizen....

 

[AppleSei]

gateshead council 0 - alex 1.

nearly got another bloody fine for parking at the court lol.

what happened then?

 

[Garree001]

Not that I am defending the OP - it is just human nature to skirt with authority and hope you come off on the better side of things.

How many people drive at a few miles per hour above the speed limit on a long journey, hoping that it will cut just a few minutes off of the journey and they don't get caught? Or how many people will sound their car horn in a built up area to say hi to their mates, when this again is illegal? Or another scenario - how many people shove aftermarket Xenons on their cars and hope that they don't get caught out.

So I guess What Alex was doing was just trying his luck like the rest of us.

I'd say practically everyone in society will do it at some point in their lives.

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

what happened then?

:yeahthat:

 

[karbineftw]

not that i am defending the op - it is just human nature to skirt with authority and hope you come off on the better side of things.

How many people drive at a few miles per hour above the speed limit on a long journey, hoping that it will cut just a few minutes off of the journey and they don't get caught? Or how many people will sound their car horn in a built up area to say hi to their mates, when this again is illegal? Or another scenario - how many people shove aftermarket xenons on their cars and hope that they don't get caught out.

So i guess what alex was doing was just trying his luck like the rest of us.

I'd say practically everyone in society will do it at some point in their lives.

+1

 

[ThisBitterPill]

Not that I am defending the OP - it is just human nature to skirt with authority and hope you come off on the better side of things.

How many people drive at a few miles per hour above the speed limit on a long journey, hoping that it will cut just a few minutes off of the journey and they don't get caught? Or how many people will sound their car horn in a built up area to say hi to their mates, when this again is illegal? Or another scenario - how many people shove aftermarket Xenons on their cars and hope that they don't get caught out.

So I guess What Alex was doing was just trying his luck like the rest of us.

Well, a more accurate analogy would be getting caught sounding your horn, or using Xenons and then trying to wriggle your way out of it, rather than accept you are in the wrong and pay the fine instead of going to court and wasting taxpayers money....

Then again, I guess some of us are more responsible than others and admit when we have done something wrong....

 

[x Alex x]

Not that I am defending the OP - it is just human nature to skirt with authority and hope you come off on the better side of things.

How many people drive at a few miles per hour above the speed limit on a long journey, hoping that it will cut just a few minutes off of the journey and they don't get caught? Or how many people will sound their car horn in a built up area to say hi to their mates, when this again is illegal? Or another scenario - how many people shove aftermarket Xenons on their cars and hope that they don't get caught out.

So I guess What Alex was doing was just trying his luck like the rest of us.

I'd say practically everyone in society will do it at some point in their lives.

good input

ermm i don't understand what all of the people were exactly there for but it was a small room with 3 behind a desk, a man behind a computer and another women behind another desk.

the man behind the computer seemed to be on my side, argued how i could pick it up if i didn't know about and that i'd shown responsibility for having him chipped etc, the other woman argues that was irrelevent as he was my dog therefore my responsibility.

i explained when the warden was telling me about the fouling, he actually told me he'd fouled on the pavement which was why he picked it up and offered me a fine.

the penny dropped when i was bored waiting to go in and read his statement, it says he fouled a grassed area.

(i remember typing it on here now, didn't register that after a few beers though )

so i mentioned that, the man behind the computer asked if it was in the councils interests to still prosecute, she spoke to him for a couple of minuites and they told me the case was dropped and i could leave.

 

[Garree001]

Well, a more accurate analogy would be getting caught sounding your horn, or using Xenons and then trying to wriggle your way out of it, rather than accept you are in the wrong and pay the fine instead of going to court and wasting taxpayers money....

The principle I was trying to explain is still there, whatever way you look at it.

Then again, I guess some of us are more responsible than others and admit when we have done something wrong....

I agree, although even if you have done something wrong, sometimes it's still worth the fight.

I can see both arguments on this one really. Alex did offer to pick up the turd, so some lenience could have been afforded in the warden's discretion. However, technically Alex was wrong and even just admitting so probably could have done favours in court, particularly as he offered to clean it up upon discovering that his dog answered the call of nature.

In either case - it's resolved and appears to have been thrown out of court, so I think the debate is pretty much exhausted there really

 

[The Beard]

The 3 behind the desk, or bench, would be Lay Magistrates, which I think is johnw's position. One person would have been the Clerk to the Court, who's job is to provide legal expertise to the Mags and the other one would have probably been an Usher.

Although it's so long since I've been in Court I've forgotten what some of them do.

For instance, before the law changed regarding vehicle taxation, I was in Court when a man had been caught driving with a Tax Disc that was several months out of date. At the time you could keep a vehicle without an in-date RFL as long as it wasn't on the highway. There was no SORN at that time.

The defendant had been using a company vehicle so hadn't been using his own. He changed jobs within the same firm which meant he had to use his own car.

He supplied a letter from the Council to the effect that the road it had been parked on for several months was not maintained by the Local Authority. A letter from a Garage owner on the same unadopted road to say the car had been parked there every day he could remember and one from his employers to confirm he'd had unlimited use of a fully expensed company vehicle.

In Court, he explained all this and showed the letters confirming his story. The Clerk explained the legal situation, namely that the law (at that time) required any driver found on the road with an out of date tax disc to pay all the outstanding duty back to the expiration of the old disc, plus tax it for the current period. There was no way round this, as that was what the law stated.

The Magistrates took this on board and decided that only the back duty should be payable and waived the fine, which would have been about twice the outstanding duty, and the costs. Had the defendant appeared with a bad attitude, or not bothered to appear at all, he would have copped for the lot which would have been about £350. As this was in about 1995, that would have really hurt.

Perhaps the important aspects are that, a) he pleaded guilty, but with extenuating circumstances, b) he bothered to turn up, c) at no time did he show any malice towards the Cop who nicked him and d) he put forward a credible reason for his lapse.

 

[johnw]

Given his offer to clean up and his co-operation by admitting that the dog was his Alex got the usual punishment. Half a day wasted by going to and from court and hanging about waiting to be dealt with. All he needs to remember is that there is now a record that he was not given any formal punishment. If anything similar happens again there will be some formal punishment.

 

[ChrisUK]

gateshead council 0 - alex 1.

nearly got another bloody fine for parking at the court lol.

Good one!

Always contest these things as they rarely hold up in court. Even if you were found guilty everything people have said are pretty much non truths and are general public hearsay.

Yes they can f*** up your credit rating with a CCJ (failiure to pay court judgement), Will they act on it by sending bailiffs 95% chance they won't. Especially if you have no high value items. It just costs them too much time and money to go down that route (they end up outsourcing it to third party "debt collection agency's). Things they take are only worth about 10% of their retail price at auction the council have to absorb the auctioneer's fee's (but not the court costs). As a general rule they will only go down that route on amounts £1000+.


I've had two parking fines in the last 6 months. One was blatantly my fault I still contested both and won. One didn't even get past the "informal appeal" stage :slayer:.

Congrats again on the win, all I hope is that you've learned your lesson by getting of light that way everyone wins.

 

[x Alex x]

cheers chris, you're fault or not if you can get off with it go for it i say

as sad as it sounds i was always curious about the magistrates courts, now i know, it's 2 mins from my college too so it was no hardship going.

i know i've probably came accross as a bit of a retard in this thread but tbh if was a bit drunk through most of my posts as i was away up scotland when i created it.

cheers for all the advice and help though people

 

[johnw]

Yes they can f*** up your credit rating with a CCJ (failiure to pay court judgement), Will they act on it by sending bailiffs 95% chance they won't. Especially if you have no high value items. It just costs them too much time and money to go down that route (they end up outsourcing it to third party "debt collection agency's). Things they take are only worth about 10% of their retail price at auction the council have to absorb the auctioneer's fee's (but not the court costs). As a general rule they will only go down that route on amounts £1000+.

CCJs only apply to civil law, which is county court stuff. I can't comment on the rest of your post as I don't know how the county court runs its enforcement. It is VERY important to understand that criminal courts take a very different view.


When a magistrates court or crown court imposes a fine they will take action if it is not paid in the time allowed. They can order you to appear in court to explain why you have not paid and will issue an arrest warrant if you don't attend. They can order that the amount be taken from your pay or benefits. They can use bailiffs but usually impose a suspended custodial sentence. That means that if you pay the weekly amount ordered by the court you stay out of jail. Fail to pay and you go jail.