Fuel saver.... Opinions?

[mikejt]

Came across this before: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-REAL-FUEL...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item2c5c903db7

I was wondering if anyone has tried something similar? do you think it will work?

 

[Ffoxy]

Yes thes things have been argued over, debated, debunked & ridiculed at length on here. Bottom line is....

Wouldnt manufacturers fit them if they really worked as they are cheap & easy to fit?

https://www.fiatforum.com/leisure-lounge/256799-anyone-used-motoflow-magnetic-fuel-conditioner.html

 

[mikejt]

That is true, they are only magnets after all... do non-metalic particles pick up a charge off magnets?

 

[Ffoxy]

That was a part of the discussions... magnetism is weird, yes it can affect non magnetic particles but not in the same way as it affects magnetic particles... as in one of those electro-magnetic body scanners... tissue is aligned by megga magnetic fields which shows up problems in the flesh & skeleton. No empirical evidence that is science based shows any improvement in fuel economy sadly... another example of "snake oil for sale to the gullible..."

However, that is my opinion & I'm no scientist lol! I have no doubt that there will be some on here who would argue the case...

 

[frankharrison]

In theory this could work BUT more in the way of mixing air into the fuel. Creating gaps between the molecules. Like foam. Same size but less stuff used.

Did you also know that research was done into putting steam into car air filtres, rather like fog? It was on Tomorrows World.
They noticed that on foggy days cars ran better.
The idea worked but like other things the petrol companies bought it up and hid it.
Increased mpg by over 50%!

 

[Ffoxy]

In theory this could work BUT more in the way of mixing air into the fuel. Creating gaps between the molecules. Like foam. Same size but less stuff used.

Did you also know that research was done into putting steam into car air filtres, rather like fog? It was on Tomorrows World.
They noticed that on foggy days cars ran better.
The idea worked but like other things the petrol companies bought it up and hid it.
Increased mpg by over 50%!

Yes water injection works, when properly metered of course... but magnets around the fuel pipe stretches even the wildest imagination lol!

 

[stonesie]

There is no way a magnet on the fuel line will do anything that the magnets in the fuel pump and injectors do not, but with cleaver marketing and pseudo science in the advert, they will sell thousands to people who know no better. Then plecebo kicks in and the suckers who fitted this useless object will swear that the mpg has gone up, rather than admit to the waste of money.

 

[sludgeguts]

Of course, people who've never used magnets will be the first to say they don't work!
I'm amazed that science doesn't know about the structure of atoms - electrons, protons, neutrons and the charges these carry.
You telling me that a magnetic field has absolutely no effect on these?

Also, as part of the experiment on that thread https://www.fiatforum.com/leisure-lou...nditioner.html

I took my magnets off and subscribed to fuelly as per advice on that thread.
sans magnets I was returning 38 - 39mpg around town.
Adding waste veg oil improved mpg to around 41
adding magnets saw an increase up to mid 40s, averaging 45mpg, all around town stuff.
Of course, this is all down to the placebo effect whereas the 45mpg I was averaging for the past couple of years prior to this experiment? I have tried economy style driving and achieved better results but it is very difficult to keep up that driving style.

Thing is, what have you got to lose? If they work, great, if they don't work, you've lost a couple of quid.

 

[sludgeguts]

There is no way a magnet on the fuel line will do anything that the magnets in the fuel pump and injectors do not, but with cleaver marketing and pseudo science in the advert, they will sell thousands to people who know no better. Then plecebo kicks in and the suckers who fitted this useless object will swear that the mpg has gone up, rather than admit to the waste of money.

Difference is, these magnets are wrapped around the fuel line, with an electric pump, the magnets are well away from the impellor and my main fuel pump is driven off the rotation of the engine.
Also, to the best of my knowledge, there are no magnets in injectors, they work off fuel pressure building up to release the spring holding the needle over the outlet.

This sucker has successfully used magnets on my last two vehicles and I even removed them and posted results without and with magnets on my fuelly account.

 

[sludgeguts]

My fuelly account.

April 8

Odometer
45510.0
Litres
47.0
Price/Litre
£1.439
Total
£67.58
UK MPG
45.5

March 27

Odometer
45040.0
Litres
45.0
Price/Litre
£1.469
Total
£66.11
UK MPG
45.5

March 18

Odometer
44590.0
Litres
43.2
Price/Litre
£1.479
Total
£63.88
UK MPG
45.3

March 10

Odometer
44160.0
Litres
45.6
Price/Litre
£1.450
Total
£66.18
UK MPG
44.8

March 6

Odometer
43710.0
Litres
37.3
Price/Litre
£1.449
Total
£54.01
UK MPG
45.1

February 26

Odometer
43340.0
Litres
37.0
Price/Litre
£1.439
Total
£53.24
UK MPG
43.0

February 22

Too cold to increase veg oil blend so added magnets to fuel lines today.
Odometer
42990.0
Litres
44.1
Price/Litre
£1.439
Total
£63.44
UK MPG
41.2

February 16

Cold starting problems. Fuelled up with BP ultimate diesel and added injector cleanser then gave the engine a good 'blow out'.
Odometer
42590.0
Litres
18.6
Price/Litre
£1.429
Total
£26.58
UK MPG
41.1

February 15

Odometer
42422.0
Litres
44.1
Price/Litre
£1.349
Total
£59.55
UK MPG
41.5

February 12

Odometer
42019.0
Litres
43.1
Price/Litre
£1.349
Total
£58.20
UK MPG
41.5

February 7

Odometer
41625.0
Litres
49.3
Price/Litre
£1.340
Total
£66.05
UK MPG
41.5

February 3

Odometer
41175.0
Litres
50.0
Price/Litre
£1.340
Total
£66.97
UK MPG
41.2

January 27

Odometer
40722.0
Litres
35.2
Price/Litre
£1.339
Total
£47.13
UK MPG
41.2

January 21

Odometer
40403.0
Litres
46.1
Price/Litre
£1.339
Total
£61.76
UK MPG
41.0

January 16

This includes a top up with 10 litres of cold-filtered waste veg oil. So, 22 litres diesel plus 10 litres wvo. 267miles - 32 litres
Odometer
39987.0
Litres
32.0
Price/Litre
£1.320
Total
£42.24
UK MPG
0.0

January 10

Odometer
36720.0
Litres
30.5
Price/Litre
£1.319
Total
£40.23
UK MPG
38.9

January 6

Odometer
36459.0
Litres
32.2
Price/Litre
£1.309
Total
£42.11
UK MPG
39.0
January 2
Odometer
36183.0
Litres
36.6
Price/Litre
£1.290
Total
£47.19
UK MPG
38.9

December 29, 2010

Odometer
35870.0
Litres
38.3
Price/Litre
£1.280
Total
£48.98
UK MPG
38.7

December 24, 2010

Odometer
35544.0
Litres
43.0
Price/Litre
£1.279
Total
£55.04
UK MPG
37.9

December 22, 2010

Removed magnets Tuesday as an exoperiment to see if they do make a difference. 20.47litres was needed to fill the tank
Odometer
35185.0
Litres
60.0
Price/Litre
£1.269
Total
£76.14
UK MPG
0.0

 

[stonesie]

Difference is, these magnets are wrapped around the fuel line, with an electric pump, the magnets are well away from the impellor and my main fuel pump is driven off the rotation of the engine.
Also, to the best of my knowledge, there are no magnets in injectors, they work off fuel pressure building up to release the spring holding the needle over the outlet.

First point,
Most FI fuel pumps pass the fuel through the motor to act as a coolant, there is no oxygen presant so even though sparks may be presant no combustion can take place.

And your Dolbo will have a electric 'lift pump' in the fuel tank to supply the high pressure pump with low pressure fuel.

Second point
All electronic FI systems use a reservoir of pressurised fuel (injector rail) and actuate the injector plunger via a spring loaded solenoid (power open, spring closed), even diesels after around the year 2000 use electronic injection because there is total control over the injection and burn of the diesel, essential to meet modern emissions standards.

There is no denying that your economy has improved but I am still sceptical, the charge temperature has a big effect on the economy of diesel engines, with BMW diesel drivers (the ones who actually know what makes the car move) blanking off the intercooler in winter is common, some go further and adapt the air intake to feed from near the exhaust manifold and report improved MPG as a result.



Hell, for a few quid I may try it myself once I have run a few tanks of petrol through this Punto I'm picking up on Monday to get a before figure... The magnets wont be getting near my bike though, I'm happy with 63mpg average

 

[dronenrs]

ah no here we go all over again. could we not resurrect the old thread for this lol

 

[jip0]

My fuelly account.

April 8

Odometer
45510.0
Litres
47.0
Price/Litre
£1.439
Total
£67.58
UK MPG
45.5

March 27

Odometer
45040.0
Litres
45.0
Price/Litre
£1.469
Total
£66.11
UK MPG
45.5

March 18

Odometer
44590.0
Litres
43.2
Price/Litre
£1.479
Total
£63.88
UK MPG
45.3

March 10

Odometer
44160.0
Litres
45.6
Price/Litre
£1.450
Total
£66.18
UK MPG
44.8

March 6

Odometer
43710.0
Litres
37.3
Price/Litre
£1.449
Total
£54.01
UK MPG
45.1

February 26

Odometer
43340.0
Litres
37.0
Price/Litre
£1.439
Total
£53.24
UK MPG
43.0

February 22

Too cold to increase veg oil blend so added magnets to fuel lines today.
Odometer
42990.0
Litres
44.1
Price/Litre
£1.439
Total
£63.44
UK MPG
41.2

February 16

Cold starting problems. Fuelled up with BP ultimate diesel and added injector cleanser then gave the engine a good 'blow out'.
Odometer
42590.0
Litres
18.6
Price/Litre
£1.429
Total
£26.58
UK MPG
41.1

February 15

Odometer
42422.0
Litres
44.1
Price/Litre
£1.349
Total
£59.55
UK MPG
41.5

February 12

Odometer
42019.0
Litres
43.1
Price/Litre
£1.349
Total
£58.20
UK MPG
41.5

February 7

Odometer
41625.0
Litres
49.3
Price/Litre
£1.340
Total
£66.05
UK MPG
41.5

February 3

Odometer
41175.0
Litres
50.0
Price/Litre
£1.340
Total
£66.97
UK MPG
41.2

January 27

Odometer
40722.0
Litres
35.2
Price/Litre
£1.339
Total
£47.13
UK MPG
41.2

January 21

Odometer
40403.0
Litres
46.1
Price/Litre
£1.339
Total
£61.76
UK MPG
41.0

January 16

This includes a top up with 10 litres of cold-filtered waste veg oil. So, 22 litres diesel plus 10 litres wvo. 267miles - 32 litres
Odometer
39987.0
Litres
32.0
Price/Litre
£1.320
Total
£42.24
UK MPG
0.0

January 10

Odometer
36720.0
Litres
30.5
Price/Litre
£1.319
Total
£40.23
UK MPG
38.9

January 6

Odometer
36459.0
Litres
32.2
Price/Litre
£1.309
Total
£42.11
UK MPG
39.0
January 2
Odometer
36183.0
Litres
36.6
Price/Litre
£1.290
Total
£47.19
UK MPG
38.9

December 29, 2010

Odometer
35870.0
Litres
38.3
Price/Litre
£1.280
Total
£48.98
UK MPG
38.7

December 24, 2010

Odometer
35544.0
Litres
43.0
Price/Litre
£1.279
Total
£55.04
UK MPG
37.9

December 22, 2010

Removed magnets Tuesday as an exoperiment to see if they do make a difference. 20.47litres was needed to fill the tank
Odometer
35185.0
Litres
60.0
Price/Litre
£1.269
Total
£76.14
UK MPG
0.0

erm when you say you added the magnets the mpg went down

also its not a proper test because your using waste veg oil and not consistently either

plus wouldn't the magnets (if they have any effect) be less effective with waste veg oil being used?

 

[sludgeguts]

erm when you say you added the magnets the mpg went down

also its not a proper test because your using waste veg oil and not consistently either

plus wouldn't the magnets (if they have any effect) be less effective with waste veg oil being used?

My mpg from Feb 16 to 22nd was 41.2. Also remember that I added injector cleanser to give them a good blowout - that was, driving down the local dual carriageway at 70mph in (mostly) 3rd gear to keep the revs high & force the higher pressure.
I had been using the waste veg consistently since Jan 16 but the temps were still too low hence the starting problems.
I was still on 10 litres veg when I added the magnets and my next fuel up saw an increase to 43mpg then 45mpg at the next fill, not a decrease.

I was hoping to get the magnets on before using the veg oil but the fuel prices were going way up and I was racking up the miles so wanted to reduce my costs.

 

[sludgeguts]

First point,
Most FI fuel pumps pass the fuel through the motor to act as a coolant, there is no oxygen presant so even though sparks may be presant no combustion can take place.

And your Dolbo will have a electric 'lift pump' in the fuel tank to supply the high pressure pump with low pressure fuel.

Second point
All electronic FI systems use a reservoir of pressurised fuel (injector rail) and actuate the injector plunger via a spring loaded solenoid (power open, spring closed), even diesels after around the year 2000 use electronic injection because there is total control over the injection and burn of the diesel, essential to meet modern emissions standards.

There is no denying that your economy has improved but I am still sceptical, the charge temperature has a big effect on the economy of diesel engines, with BMW diesel drivers (the ones who actually know what makes the car move) blanking off the intercooler in winter is common, some go further and adapt the air intake to feed from near the exhaust manifold and report improved MPG as a result.



Hell, for a few quid I may try it myself once I have run a few tanks of petrol through this Punto I'm picking up on Monday to get a before figure... The magnets wont be getting near my bike though, I'm happy with 63mpg average

Some injectors use solenoids, others rely on fuel pressure within the injector to open the spring, in any case, the solenoid is above the injector so is nowhere near the fuel.

Having never stripped a diesel pump I'm not an expert, however, I cannot see (and I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong - and perhaps include a link) that the fuel would be allowed to slosh around the internals to cool it or otherwise - else you would/could end up contaminating the fuel?
Surely the pump has two distinct chambers (much like the drain pump on a washing machine or pressure washer - one chamber deals with the workings of the pump (either mechanicals or electric motor) whilst the other chamber deals with the fluid - so shifting it with a vane or by movement of a diaphragm and the two chambers kept seperate by means of sealing rings or similar?
And surely the electric lift pump will work in a similar manner, with the motor being encased apart from the impellor?

Also, your point regarding adapting air intake to feed off the warm manifold has been common on cars since before I can remember with early cars having a manual flap (marked winter / summer) and later cars the process being automated.

 

[donniemateno]

i fitted one of these to my volvo 440 1.7 turbo a couple of years ago as is a very thirsty car!!!. i got the full set of about 6 or 8 " fuel savers". in my opinion they made no difference to my fuel economy i wudnt recommend!

 

[mikejt]

Interesting replies guys cheers!

 

[Astounded]

Hi Guys,
Some months ago I was introduced to a product which allegedly when added to your engine oil reduces the friction on the moving parts and the result is that you get improved fuel economy and your engine doesn’t wear as much-yeah right never heard that one before!
I am in the construction business and I had previously bought very innovative products which I was very pleased with off the same company offering this stuff so I was intrigued enough to give it a go and bought a can of the stuff.
I don’t know a lot about cars but I do know enough to know that there are many variables affecting fuel economy so I thought I would arrange a test which would eliminate as many variables as possible to test as accurately as possible if this stuff worked.
I took an afternoon off work and this is the test I did:
PURPOSE OF TEST
To attempt to minimise any variables appertaining to the exercise in order to compare engine fuel consumption before and after treatment with oil treatment
VARIABLES TO CONSIDER
Measurement of fuel used
Measurement of distance covered
Quality of fuel used
Traffic conditions and route,ie urban,nonurban
Driving style
Atmospheric conditions
METHODOLOGY
To address all of the above as far as possible the following methodology was adopted.
A 2002 1.6 litre petrol engine vehicle had its tank filled as far as possible with fuel and was then driven at as close to a constant 60 mph as traffic conditions would allow around two full circuits of the M60 motorway England starting and finishing at Stockport where it was originally fuelled,a distance of 70.70 miles
It then had its fuel tank filled as before at the same pump at the same filling station as before and the amount of fuel used and distance travelled were noted.
The oil treatment was then administered to the engine oil.
The vehicle was then driven around exactly the same route at the same speed by the same driver.
The traffic conditions and weather were the same for both trips.
On completion of the second trip the vehicle was refuelled again in exactly the same way and the same information recorded.
The results are as below

Dist (m) Fuel used(L) MPL MPG Change
Before treatment 70.70 8.47 8.35 38.08

After treatment 70.70 6.30 11.22 51.16 + 34.34%
Well I was absolutely amazed so of course I did the same thing again with another vehicle and got similar but not quite so good results.
So I told my mates about it and they were all going crazy about it right?
WRONG
Typical reactions
It will invalidate the warranty on my car?
What if it damages the engine?
If I put this in my engine it will overfill the oil reservoir (apparently removing 300ml of oil is far too difficult to make a 34% fuel saving)
You must be wrong all these fuel saving devices don’t work you made a mistake.
OK then maybe this stuff is not for the average motorist lets try some transport companies,they will be interested as they have mechanics to remove oil before the treatment goes in and they will tear my arm off to get hold of this stuff even if it only saves them 5% on their fuel bill never mind 34%-right
WRONG guess what they said?
It will invalidate the warranty on my car?
What if it damages the engine?
You must be wrong all these fuel saving systems don’t work you made a mistake.
Now if I was offering them this stuff for 5 grand per truck treated, payment upfront, I could understand it but I was offering to treat a wagon for free,they could see if it worked and if it did they would pay me what it cost me to buy the stuff and if it didn’t then they pay me nothing.
The best I have been able to achieve hawking it round different companies for months is one agreed to test it but 6 weeks later they still haven’t got round to ‘finding the right truck to try it in’ wtf?
There are about 20 people I know who have put this stuff in their car engines both petrol and diesel and all have seen improvements in fuel economy varying from 15% upwards to 30% plus and these are mainly friends and family and mainly older vehicles.
I had a guy at the local MOT station test the exhaust gasses before and after the stuff was added to a car engine and he found that the amount of CO( Carbon Monoxide) producedafter the oil treatment was one sixth of the amount before treatment.
The amount of unburnt oxygen and hydrocarbons was also significantly lower.
He said that lower CO emissions and lower oxygen and hydrocarbon levels were a very strong indicator of improved fuel economy but that he was not convinced it would work and had no interest in trying it himself even though I offered him a can for free for the testing!
I have a friend who has a rally driving team too and guess what-not interested in even trying the stuff.I gave him a can and its still sitting on the window cill of his garage 2 months later.
That has been the reaction of everyone I have spoken to who has been in any way involved in the transport or motor industry and I am at a loss to understand why-any ideas?

 

[Eklipze3k]

TLDR, looks like spam

 

[Astounded]

TLDR, looks like spam

You have just proved my point!
Spam is usually intended to get you to buy something,what are you being asked to buy?