Technical Front wheel bearings - tools?

[nunesaf]

Hi all

For those who are more advanced in DYI repairs.

I need to replace the front wheel bearing and it has a retainer ring with an hexagonal shape. Is this tool strictly necessary to remove it:
http://images.marketplaceadvisor.channeladvisor.com/hi/67/67274/4064heditd.jpg

or from your experience are there any (reasonably) destructive methods you can recommend?

Thanks

 

[somyunguy]

I 've just done mine, used a home made tool coupled with a "Stilson" wrench , but then i felt the need to have one rather than butcher it.

I would either buy the item or make one , it's not getting it out that's so much the problem but getting the new one in without destroying it.

The ring is'nt that strong and is probably considered a consumable part rather than re-useable.

It usually comes as part of the bearing kit along with a fresh nut.
The kit part # here was "Fag # 140F" , might be different wherever you are and dependant on the supplier you choose.

That said, it did'nt appear to be overly tight , i would be more concerned about how you're going to get the bearings out.

If you don't have access to a press , it can be done with a small hammer and a blind punch by very patiently continuosly driving around the complete circumference of the bearing, it's a slow process but can be done.

The temptation for most is to clobber with the biggest hammer to hand , sometimes you'll get lucky!!:bang:

 

[nunesaf]

Thanks, very useful input!

Would it be too ambitious (or silly depending on the perspective) to do a tool in acrylic?

It's just I can do one easily in that material, whereas a proper metal one would be hard for me.

Now the exam question is what would be approximately be the torque to which I will need to tighten it.

My bearing kit brings that ring so presumably it is a consumable part.

Thanks

 

[somyunguy]

No sweat! Given that i did'nt find the ring to be too tight , coupled to the design , i would think around 30 nm would probably be adequate .

However i must admit to not knowing what the spec should be , i just tightened it as tight as i deemed neccessary and staked it at the cutout on both sides to pre-clude the possibility of it unscrewing .

Will have a look in my "Haynes book of lies" to see if there's a spec but don't actually have the particular chapter , it was a free download

If you're planning to make it out of acrylic i would think the thicker you can make the octogon the better , also a big gripping area would be better than small , i don't think it's an impossible plot .

 

[somyunguy]

So i went through the manual and could not find a ref to this procedure as regards torque values. Sorry!
Perhaps someone else may know?

 

[nunesaf]

Thanks I think I will give it a try with the acrylic - I have a 5mm thick sheet. I will have to think then of a way (a large grove?) to apply such torque. But 30nM doesn't sound challenging! Ops I just said it, for sure it will be a disaster!

 

[somyunguy]

Have to ask , why is it a problem to work in another material ?
Mine was made from brass / bronze but i'm quite sure ally would work .

I'm just concerned , 5mm could be a bit light , i would go at least double that !
How are you planning to do this ?

 

[nunesaf]

I have acrylic back home, no other material - I am afraid. Then the cutting is another difficulty. I have a dremel but no grinder.
My idea is then to put two bolts diametrically opposite to each other across the tool and use a screwdriver to unwind the seal (if this makes any sense).

 

[somyunguy]

Yeah , makes sense , perhaps 2 bolts and a ringset spanner rather than a screwdriver , if you were to use a bolt matching your spanner size , just a thought.:idea:
Maybe use m6 to minimise the risk of fracturing the acrylic under torque , space them well so as to neither put stress on the octogon periphery nor to cause fracturing between the 2 bolts .

The spanner would give you a more secure purchase and you could probably get a bit more leverage with a piece of pipe or another spanner by forking the open end with a ring end.

My thought was to use the ring end on the bolt head flush with the acrylic levered against the 2nd bolt reversed to the first , ie , 1 bolt from the top , the other from the bottom.

You might find it necessary to hold your tool in place while you're applying force in which case using a longer bolt sticking out would give you something to work with.

I assume your planning on removing the uprights from the car and working in a vice??

If you bolted 2 layers of acrylic together should be strong enough to do what you want.

 

[nunesaf]

Yeah , makes sense , perhaps 2 bolts and a ringset spanner rather than a screwdriver , if you were to use a bolt matching your spanner size , just a thought.:idea:
Maybe use m6 to minimise the risk of fracturing the acrylic under torque , space them well so as to neither put stress on the octogon periphery nor to cause fracturing between the 2 bolts .

The spanner would give you a more secure purchase and you could probably get a bit more leverage with a piece of pipe or another spanner by forking the open end with a ring end.

My thought was to use the ring end on the bolt head flush with the acrylic levered against the 2nd bolt reversed to the first , ie , 1 bolt from the top , the other from the bottom.

You might find it necessary to hold your tool in place while you're applying force in which case using a longer bolt sticking out would give you something to work with.

I assume your planning on removing the uprights from the car and working in a vice??

If you bolted 2 layers of acrylic together should be strong enough to do what you want.

Excellent idea in using the spanner rather than the screw driver!

Indeed I am planning in putting the bolts strategically so they are as apart as possible but not too close to the edge in order not to risk cracking the the acrylic. I don't know yet how much room will I have to put the bolt head at the back of the tool.

Unfortunately I am not thinking of using a vice - I don't have one or such facilities.

 

[somyunguy]

So are you going to do it "in situ" then ?? Just curious !

How are you planning to remove the drive hub from the bearing ? Once that's out the way you have clear access to the retaining ring.

I stripped the entire assembly off so i could get it into my press , but then i also replaced my balljoints and struts at the same time.

It's always easier to do something like this when you've got something solid to work against !

 

[nunesaf]

So are you going to do it "in situ" then ?? Just curious !

How are you planning to remove the drive hub from the bearing ? Once that's out the way you have clear access to the retaining ring.

I stripped the entire assembly off so i could get it into my press , but then i also replaced my balljoints and struts at the same time.

It's always easier to do something like this when you've got something solid to work against !

Hi

So some progress today. I have removed the entire hub from the car managed to remove the hub from the bearing - both inner races are out.

My tool failed - the edges got rounded so I must make another attempt with aluminium. Then hopefully I will be able to remove the hexagon ring. However there seems to be a ring on the opposite side. Or it is the shape of the actual hub where the outer race seats against to.

Sorry for my ignorance as surely it is obvious to you guys but then how to remove the outer race from the hub? I don't have a press but have the tools to drift it out (with outer tube and disks to fit). EDIT - I realised I don't have a drift small enough .

I have some pictures - in progress.

Thanks!

 

[somyunguy]

Hey fella!
The opposite side has a small ridge to seat the bearing against , also a seal that seals against the driven hub face , ie the cv joint , once entered into the driven hub.

Driving the outer race could prove a little problematic unless you have something that fits snugly , otherwise i would first try a small ballpein hammer driving a 10mm dia blind punch to try and creep it out.

You could also re-assemble one side of the bearing using just the balls and the cone, maybe with some thick grease just to hold the balls in place and use the reduced diameter to drive against ?

Are you using some sort of bearing puller? I ask because you refer to disks!

The idea is to move it by thousands of an inch rather than mm at a time , also a good soak of WD40 would not go amiss!

It might be worth driving that ring loose with a blind punch as well , it's just the installation that's really problematic without a tool. just be careful not to damage the threads inside the hub on the yoke.

Ally would certainly be a better proposition but i am a bit surprised that the acrylic failed
If you're using a dremel , it might be an idea to simply cut a quadrant to drive with ,not unlike the tool as in the link , just size to whatever socket extension you have.

 

[nunesaf]

Hey – thanks for coming to my rescue! Again 
I had a look at the Haynes Manual and surprisingly there’s a sectional drawing of the hub and that helped me understanding this. Indeed there’s a seat and I’ve already removed the seal on that side (with a small damage to the rubber, but fixed with silicone).
I’ve realised my mistake as I have removed the inner race and spheres on the inner side of the hub. Therefore there was nothing against I could drift the whole bearing (including the outer race).
Indeed I am using a bearing puller. Something like this: https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=2...hEqiX0QWLyYC4BA&ved=0CFkQsAQ&biw=1268&bih=630. I am now in the process of getting a drift small enough to fit on the back of the hub so I can extract the outer racing – after having refit again the spheres and inner race.
Although I also have a bearing puller that I have used to remove the hub flange from the actual hub and then a separator to remove the inner race from the flange.
I am planning redoing the tool tonight with aluminium and yes I have put some WD40 already. Hopefully by Friday night I will be in a position to get the bearing out.
The other reason why the acrylic failed was because the edges where not uniformly fit, so I have to be far more careful now with the aluminium and make it a very close fit. Otherwise there will be two contact points and those will easily round.

 

[nunesaf]

Ok just a quick update.

This was my first attempt to fabricate this tool which didn't work:

Then I've made another attempt using aluminium and surprisingly it was also snapping. I've concluded the ring in place is larger than the new ring. On reflection now, probably because when fitting the ring seal, this is pressed and the inner size enlarged.

Here's the tool and the result:

and:

The hub had a play and it is clear here the spheres where moving around - see the green seal marked (the same happened on the other side):

Ready for the next step! Hopefully tomorrow I will get the disks to drift the old bearing out.

Thanks

 

[somyunguy]

Great that you have the bearing puller! I don't but i have a 12 ton press !

Is that the downloaded "Haynes book of lies" ? It's missing 3 chapters , 5,6,7 which annoyed me greatly because i wanted more detail on the hub assembly as well

Check the back side of your driven hub for damage as well , mine looked a bitty marred up and i chose to clean it up a bit in the lathe , came out alright .

That seal looks well knackered , it's because of balls coming away with the cage when you pressed it out .Mine looked the same when i pressed it out.

The two races face one another in the bearing housing and pulling up the sideshaft nut holds them in angular contact with the "outer" housing bearing surfaces thereby eliminating any play.

Have to go , my black cat is calling me to bed! He's a real bed hog too

 

[nunesaf]

Ah... that makes sense - the marks on the seals. I have found however the offending part. One of the inner races had a crack and the spheres didn't like it. There's a lot of black scoring in that race (that eventually split when I've removed it).
I will send you a PM shortly.
Lucky you... having a 12 ton press.