Technical Front suspension knocking noise.

Currently reading:
Technical Front suspension knocking noise.

Morty Mort

NobodyBlamesTheHappyGuy!
Joined
Jun 30, 2003
Messages
2,986
Location
69° North
Hello there Stilo friends.

This will be a thread about the front suspension.

A knocking noise (or noises) has developed from the front suspension. Driving on a gravel road with many of these small holes (with water) really makes the car ramble. Steering is not severely affected.

There was a thread earlier about tyre pressure, where I got some beating due to high pressure - 2.7 bars on 15". After I let out som air, I've now developed inner tyre wear on the front wheels... So up we go again.

Anyway, this inner tyre wear moves the centre of the tyre's surface outwards on both sides. We can say the offset has changed - as using spacers to make tracking width wider. This has led to tram-lining and excess wear on the suspension / steering components.

I've now switched front tires with rear tires, and the tram-lining has gone away. Better than nothing.

So now I have some strange knocks. I've been to 3 different garages, going from 100% amateur to a state of the art pro garage. They have concluded with either of 2 things:
- 1. Track rods. Not the end links.
- 2. Suspension top mount.

Number 1 is a cheap part but expensive to change.
Part 2 is an expensive set but easy to change.

When I sit in the car (parked), push the brake pedal and wiggle the steering wheel, I can feel the knocking in my foot.

So, does anyone have any ideas?

Morten.
 

ABZSTILO

Inverness Sierra
Joined
Dec 4, 2005
Messages
1,409
Location
Inverness
I'd go with the top mounts myself, but could easy be the the drop links or a bush going in the suspension arms (which have to be changed as a whole unit :rolleyes: ).

*** edit***

Having re-read your post Morty I'd plump for the suspension arms :( The tyre wear problem seems directly related to them in my car.
 

PNL

Banned
Joined
Nov 11, 2005
Messages
17,870
Location
In my house
You can get ware set in in the control arms of the steering rack [where the arm goes into the rack] this can give you the knocking noise you have as well :bang:
 

Big Black Stilo

New member
Joined
Jun 3, 2004
Messages
7,883
Location
Ooop North
i finally changed my drop links last weekend and my noise has finally gone. Car is running smooth as now.

However I have similar tyre wear that you are on about but i dont think drop inks would cause this

would they?
 

ABZSTILO

Inverness Sierra
Joined
Dec 4, 2005
Messages
1,409
Location
Inverness
Wouldn't have thought so, IMHO it's most likely to be the suspension arms as cause for the tyre wear - if the bushes on the arm have any play in them at all I've been advised they will knock out the camber settings (proven when I took my car to get checked out) and cause the tyre wear 'issues'.

I'll be plumping for new arms, top mounts and drop links to be on the safe side, but I don't have any knocking per se, just some uneven tyre wear.

I'll be waiting the January sales though (yeah.... right :eek: ) :D
 

Argonought

It's about GO! not SHOW!
Joined
Sep 8, 2005
Messages
7,593
Location
POOLE, Dorset
Wouldn't have thought so, IMHO it's most likely to be the suspension arms as cause for the tyre wear - if the bushes on the arm have any play in them at all I've been advised they will knock out the camber settings (proven when I took my car to get checked out) and cause the tyre wear 'issues'.

I'll be plumping for new arms, top mounts and drop links to be on the safe side, but I don't have any knocking per se, just some uneven tyre wear.
I'm sure you'll find the inner tyre wear is a feature of the suspension and I'd be very surprised if anyone can come up with an easy solution for it.

The wear is clearly 'toe' generated and is far greater than the more even wear you'd expect from camber errors.

This is almost certainly a dynamic issue in the sense that the steering geometry changes whilst cornering (you therefore can't simply adjust the toe as otherwise it would be wrong on the straight etc). As you say, most likely to do with the flexible bushes on the lower arms I'd guess :chin:
 
OP
OP
Morty Mort

Morty Mort

NobodyBlamesTheHappyGuy!
Joined
Jun 30, 2003
Messages
2,986
Location
69° North
You can get ware set in in the control arms of the steering rack [where the arm goes into the rack] this can give you the knocking noise you have as well :bang:

Yep. That was the right parts. It was those mentioned at the garages. I thought these were named "track rods" as the track rod ends were screwed on the ends... :p

Two methods were used to find the noise. One was the good old crowbar and wheel waggle horisonatlly and vertically - on ground and lifted up. The second method was with air pressure. The car literally bounced on the lift, as every suspension part was stressed. No play anywhere...

But the knock could be felt in the arms going into the rack when the steering wheel turned. And I feel the knock in my right foot aswell (as mentioned).

I don't think it is the droplinks, as the steering isn't as precise as it has been before. Changing tires back vs. rear dramatically improved handling.

This is propably a result of enthusiastic driving. But, what the hell, the car handles extremely well, being a family car, so getting some wear and tear in these areas is something I'd call fair.

Morten.
 

PNL

Banned
Joined
Nov 11, 2005
Messages
17,870
Location
In my house
i finally changed my drop links last weekend and my noise has finally gone. Car is running smooth as now.

However I have similar tyre wear that you are on about but i dont think drop inks would cause this

would they?

Purely a tracking and camber issue that one ..
 

PNL

Banned
Joined
Nov 11, 2005
Messages
17,870
Location
In my house
Yep. That was the right parts. It was those mentioned at the garages. I thought these were named "track rods" as the track rod ends were screwed on the ends... :p



Morten.

Control arms /track rods just different terminology used by different people but both the same part ..the worst thing about this is you have to change the whole rack as you cant buy new arms :bang: looks as tho I might be useing the old customes sticker again in the distant future ..I dread to think what a steering rack would cost over there with you :eek:
 

Big Black Stilo

New member
Joined
Jun 3, 2004
Messages
7,883
Location
Ooop North
i thought you can change track rod ends on the stilo?

I have been told my tracking is fine and that i just have to live with what it does
 
OP
OP
Morty Mort

Morty Mort

NobodyBlamesTheHappyGuy!
Joined
Jun 30, 2003
Messages
2,986
Location
69° North
It seems like I can buy the arms as separate parts here. They are equal at each side. But I don't have time or experience to change them. These are quite cheap.

But if it takes a day to change, it will cost at least 600 GBP (one man) for the labour only. A new rack might be easier to fit. But as stated, Phil, what is the price for a rack... :cry: I'll check it out.

And what if the fault isn't there? :eek: I seriously need some time for knock-seeking.

Morten.
 
OP
OP
Morty Mort

Morty Mort

NobodyBlamesTheHappyGuy!
Joined
Jun 30, 2003
Messages
2,986
Location
69° North
Alright. Fiat tie rod ends cost 980 NOK (82 GBP), and non-Fiat tie rod ends cost 17 GBP. Simple answer there. The inner track rods are not replaceable by Fiat, only a gasket set is avaliable. Inner track rods exists as a non-Fiat part for about 17 GBP aswell.

The complete steering rack is priced at 400 GBP. Fiat original part. No mounting in that price ofcourse. Actually lower priced than I had thought, but still a fortune.

Morten.
 

Argonought

It's about GO! not SHOW!
Joined
Sep 8, 2005
Messages
7,593
Location
POOLE, Dorset
There was was a thread from a guy (non UK) who changed both inner steering rods a while back (can't find it) but he managed it and it cured the problem.

Nightmare job by all accounts as the rack has to be removed but at least you know it's doable (y)
 
OP
OP
Morty Mort

Morty Mort

NobodyBlamesTheHappyGuy!
Joined
Jun 30, 2003
Messages
2,986
Location
69° North
There was was a thread from a guy (non UK) who changed both inner steering rods a while back (can't find it) but he managed it and it cured the problem.

Nightmare job by all accounts as the rack has to be removed but at least you know it's doable (y)

Yes, I remember the thread aswell, but it seems impossible to find.

Phil, do you by any chance have an opportunity (spare time someday) to find out what the complete rack would cost from Fiat UK?

Regards, Morten.
 
OP
OP
Morty Mort

Morty Mort

NobodyBlamesTheHappyGuy!
Joined
Jun 30, 2003
Messages
2,986
Location
69° North


Thank's Decks. I'll try to get in touch with Marian. And I doubt I'll be doing it, with wife and kids hanging around wanting me to do everything else but work on my Italian mistress. Guess the work will be put out to a garage. But first... be sure this is the issue.

And it suddenly struck me if I'm ordering the rack from the UK (if cheaper than the Norwegian retail price), I will have to move the steering wheel and add a couple of pedal extension rods to the right side. :rolleyes:
 

PNL

Banned
Joined
Nov 11, 2005
Messages
17,870
Location
In my house
Yes, I remember the thread aswell, but it seems impossible to find.

Phil, do you by any chance have an opportunity (spare time someday) to find out what the complete rack would cost from Fiat UK?

Regards, Morten.

Can do no problem ..would need the chasis number etc from your car though (y) just let me know if you want me to check this for you as yours will be left hand drive wont it :)
 

jayteedee

New member
Joined
Sep 28, 2007
Messages
151
i too have recently changed my droplinks and have now noticed inner wear on the front tyres... they could also do with a bit of air in them as well.

can changing the droplinks knock something out in terms of wheel allignment??
 
Top