Introduction
This is Fizzle my 1994 Fizz
Panda (Classic) Fizzle :)
- Thread starter panda panda
- Start date
John,
wipe everything back to dry. Run the car for couple miles and check where the leak is located.
wipe everything back to dry. Run the car for couple miles and check where the leak is located.
OP
OP
Dont need to run it Jacob, leak is coming from under the securing nut under the flange which secures the two pipes into the top of the pump. The nut turns the whole thread so I guess I will need a new unit now
OP
OP
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John,
1) if the thread is damaged under the nut, try tied it down by adding extra nut on the top.
2) if the head of the bolt is spinning inside moulded cavity- pump unit would need to be taken out (risk of braeking security ring) and bolt replaced from underneath with next size. dragonMan - is CC pump diferent?
1) if the thread is damaged under the nut, try tied it down by adding extra nut on the top.
2) if the head of the bolt is spinning inside moulded cavity- pump unit would need to be taken out (risk of braeking security ring) and bolt replaced from underneath with next size. dragonMan - is CC pump diferent?
OP
OP
Thanks, it's no2 so pump will need to come out, I can source a new unit for £150 from europeland, that's one expensive seized nut
After brakes, anything to do with fuel lines is my worst nightmare.
wiring can be a nightmare... not on pandas though its simple. on more modern cars.. nightmare.
hmm i am not sure if the panda shares pumps with any other fiat, maybe worth looking into. if they are the same as a cinquecento.. i may be able to find one for you at the local scrap yard.
you should bring the fizzle wagon around here some time. maybe i can fix it without having to pay out £150...
i would have thought that the fuel is leaking from the feed or return line.
thankfully the panda pump is rather low pressure as fuel injection systems go, meaning that you could (if the pipe is shot or the end connectors) replace the pipe with rubber fuel hose.
i just hope that the fuel sender top is not cracked :/
hmm i am not sure if the panda shares pumps with any other fiat, maybe worth looking into. if they are the same as a cinquecento.. i may be able to find one for you at the local scrap yard.
you should bring the fizzle wagon around here some time. maybe i can fix it without having to pay out £150...
i would have thought that the fuel is leaking from the feed or return line.
thankfully the panda pump is rather low pressure as fuel injection systems go, meaning that you could (if the pipe is shot or the end connectors) replace the pipe with rubber fuel hose.
i just hope that the fuel sender top is not cracked :/
I believe so.
OP
OP
Thanks DM, I'm hoping to source a replacement part and get it fixed locally (the panda elves are looking in sheds as I type ) I really don't want to drive very far with a now very leaky fuel system, especially as it collects on the top of the tank then sloshes everywhere on corners
I fear that I've broken the plastic retaining the captive bolt on top of the pump housing, I may well turn up on your doorstep with some bits to mend sooner rather than later as the pump worked perfectly apart from the dribbling...:Thumb:
) I really don't want to drive very far with a now very leaky fuel system, especially as it collects on the top of the tank then sloshes everywhere on corners I fear that I've broken the plastic retaining the captive bolt on top of the pump housing, I may well turn up on your doorstep with some bits to mend sooner rather than later as the pump worked perfectly apart from the dribbling...:Thumb:
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OP
OP
This little chappie is proving difficult for my panda fixing pixies to remove from the tank - much awiggling and awaggling has proved fruitless so far
It looks as though a tool is required to separate the sender and tube from the top of the assembly to get the pump out of the tank - anyone any knowledge about this, any help most appreciated.
The tank on Fizzle will be dropped out for refixing with the good part.
Anyone know what size O rings are needed for the flow and return lines?
BTW it's not me doing this so you can all breathe a sigh of relief, there won't be any petrol tanks flying through the air in Hafilax tonight!
looks just like a cinq one... on which you have to twist the tube anti-clockwise. There is a special tool to do it i believe but i have always just used 2 large flat-blade screwdrivers, hold them tight together at the top and then use something to go between them to use as a lever.
see my crude diagram lol - once you got that out the rest of the unit comes out easy
see my crude diagram lol - once you got that out the rest of the unit comes out easy
Attachments
i use a soft hammer and a blunt flat blade... you can gently tap it around with one.
the one on my cinq was a right pig to remove, i wrapped a screwdriver in a dockers glove and hammered it round gently, and even then it was a struggle to get moving and one of the lugs cracked taking it as slow as i could.
Try pressing the assembly down a few times etc whilst wiggling round, once it starts moving it will get easier.
Try pressing the assembly down a few times etc whilst wiggling round, once it starts moving it will get easier.
OP
OP
Thanks Guys, I'll pass the info on and hopefully be able to get the pump removed
In other news, I taxed Fizzle today, despite his unroadworthyness as I noticed his tax ran out last month - lucky he's been laid up eh?
I hadn't changed the address on ther V5 so I didn't get a reminder - the post office has taken care of that though - saved me a stamp!
He started first time and the petrol smell wasn't too bad though obviously I'm not taking him anywhere apart from to the menders.
In other news, I taxed Fizzle today, despite his unroadworthyness as I noticed his tax ran out last month - lucky he's been laid up eh?
I hadn't changed the address on ther V5 so I didn't get a reminder - the post office has taken care of that though - saved me a stamp!
He started first time and the petrol smell wasn't too bad though obviously I'm not taking him anywhere apart from to the menders.
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OP
If anyone has a fuel pump (in tank) suitable for fitting to fizzle or a tank complete with the assembly I would be very grateful.
Failing a genuine second hand part I would be interested in any ideas as to how an aftermarket pump could be fitted.
I really want to get Fizzle back on the road, undersealed, new doors and the alfa seats finally fitted.
I can't do any of that until the bloody pumps rectified.
Failing a genuine second hand part I would be interested in any ideas as to how an aftermarket pump could be fitted.
I really want to get Fizzle back on the road, undersealed, new doors and the alfa seats finally fitted.
I can't do any of that until the bloody pumps rectified.
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hmm it does look sadly like it is only a panda fuel sender unit i have been looking around the scrap yards recently for fuel pumps for talon. sadly i have not seen another fiat with that kind of fuel sender.
the fuel pump, yeah.. the uno 999cc IE uses the same one (the one i am using in talon right now) but you need to find a scrap injected panda
i will keep a look out for you here in my local and around.
have you tried asking on http://www.breakeryard.com/ they found some great stuff for me over time
i have been looking around the scrap yards recently for fuel pumps for talon. sadly i have not seen another fiat with that kind of fuel sender.the fuel pump, yeah.. the uno 999cc IE uses the same one (the one i am using in talon right now) but you need to find a scrap injected panda
i will keep a look out for you here in my local and around.
have you tried asking on http://www.breakeryard.com/ they found some great stuff for me over time
OP
OP
Good news, I managed to find a new fuel pump assembly on ebay, this is just the pump and housing for the sender unit - which the captive bolt on mine had broken. I does not include any seals or connections - plastic pipe ends etc either.
Now I'm flummoxed as what to do, I don't have a clue how to sort this and fuel just oozes out of the top of the pump to such an extent I'm very wary of driving the car at all.
As I learned earlier in the thread the sender unit needs a special tool/technique to remove it which again leaves me stuggling with what to do.
Now I'm flummoxed as what to do, I don't have a clue how to sort this and fuel just oozes out of the top of the pump to such an extent I'm very wary of driving the car at all.
As I learned earlier in the thread the sender unit needs a special tool/technique to remove it which again leaves me stuggling with what to do.
It's hard to tell from the pic, but it looks like the sender unit has a locking ring around it? It just operates like a big nut screwing the whole unit down into ohe tank.
If that's the case, a blunted screwdriver or chisel in a glove on one of the notches outside and hammer it gently to rotate anti clockwise, i'm guessing it'll be mega stiff though (as said earlier in the thread, mine was almost welded in on the cinq, albeit a very slight different setup, the panda one looks a bit like how bmw mount their pumps and that was the technique i used also for me bmw)
As for the seals, they will basically just be a rubber rings, i'm sure if you measure it universal ones can be found.
I also suspect your tank breather is blocked btw, exlpains the pressure build up and seals getting breached too, though hard to say without seeing exactly where the leak is.
If that's the case, a blunted screwdriver or chisel in a glove on one of the notches outside and hammer it gently to rotate anti clockwise, i'm guessing it'll be mega stiff though (as said earlier in the thread, mine was almost welded in on the cinq, albeit a very slight different setup, the panda one looks a bit like how bmw mount their pumps and that was the technique i used also for me bmw)
As for the seals, they will basically just be a rubber rings, i'm sure if you measure it universal ones can be found.
I also suspect your tank breather is blocked btw, exlpains the pressure build up and seals getting breached too, though hard to say without seeing exactly where the leak is.
OP
OP
Thanks mr c.
I've ordered a tool off ebay to get the large plastic ring off - I am wary of breaking the old one so thought I'd play it a bit safer.
I also think I better wait until the weather warms up (or I can get the car into a warm workshop) as the cold does stiff plastics no favours - as I found out lately removing the scuttle panel off the mk3, a number of white clips just snapped.
It is tempting just to use a hairdryer on it but with the ammount of fuel involved may be a recipe for firey disaster :O
Good point about the breather too, this is starting to look like a job for a garage though as I've no idea how to check that out.
I've ordered a tool off ebay to get the large plastic ring off - I am wary of breaking the old one so thought I'd play it a bit safer.
I also think I better wait until the weather warms up (or I can get the car into a warm workshop) as the cold does stiff plastics no favours - as I found out lately removing the scuttle panel off the mk3, a number of white clips just snapped.
It is tempting just to use a hairdryer on it but with the ammount of fuel involved may be a recipe for firey disaster :O
Good point about the breather too, this is starting to look like a job for a garage though as I've no idea how to check that out.
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I don't think petrol will ignite through heat alone but I'd certainly be wary of it...
I don't think petrol will ignite through heat alone but I'd certainly be wary of it...
Yep, John needs to use a blow torch for maximum impact
