Technical First to second gear (pt1)

[luvduvs]

Re: First to second gear

LuvDuvs, i think you got the right car, but from the wrong dealer mate.

I did :bang:

I've contacted quite a few dealers in my quest to decide about the purchase. The "shudder" on Sunday was at Penrith, so call them.
(dealer in the car at the time!) There's a guy at Crows Nest who's been really helpful via email so I'd say he's a good one to contact too. Let me know how you go.

Yep I've emailed them a few nights ago; practically everyone at http://www.fiatcars.com.au/default.asp?action=category&ID=337&order=rank&sort=asc&limit=0 with an email address

I think I know exactly what dealer you are talking about Kevin, it's actually quite good to know the dealer that is closest to me is helpful. I'm from the Campbelltown area

Glad you got a response

Let's hope they won't disappoint me.. I'm from the eastern suburbs so its a bit of a drive, but as I implied if they can impress me then I won't mind the distance

 

[skyflyer]

Re: First to second gear

Ok - Here's the latest. I got a message to say that my car was ready so I went to pick it up last Saturday - 2 weeks without a car, high hopes for the new clutch - Wrong!!! I found out that no new clutch had been fitted just the same stuff that had been done before ( recalibrated the gear box, clutch relearn ) . Not Happy !! Phoned back on Monday to speak to the guy who told me I needed a new clutch - he's away on holiday ! What I don't understand is that how can you go from needing a new clutch ( his exact words when I first questioned him about this were " well that's what's causing the juddering ) to not needing one ?

Got hold of the salesman who sold me the car, had a long chat with him and he got the head honcho technician to call me. Unfortunately I have absolutely nothing new to report. He told me that in all his years he has never come across this and that it is not a known defect on dualogics. I told him that maybe he should check this again and he said he would. So I'm back to " if it happens again bring it in " Well I've had the car 12 weeks and it's been "in" for 3 of them. To give him his dues he was very polite and understanding but as usual they want you to replicate the problem when you bring it in which never happens. Not a lot more I can do - it's driving fine at the moment so we'll see........

Oh - he had never heard of the software update . Keep us posted with this because if it's a known defect there should be a recall !

 

[fiatdownunder]

Re: First to second gear

Oh - he had never heard of the software update . Keep us posted with this because if it's a known defect there should be a recall !

Not always!
there must be the majority for a recall to be put into place. if it is only a few (which is what it seems to be in this case) they will not put out a recall at all. All that will happen is that when any dualogic comes in for service they will plug it in to see what updates are due and do the relevant ones.

 

[T14086]

Re: First to second gear

if it's a known defect there should be a recall !

And what would this recall consist off

 

[Ulpian]

Re: First to second gear

This juddery clutch take-up syndrome is common in Doblos.
There are various explanations, but no apparent foolproof solution.
Dualogic is really only a manual with computer activation, so I wonder if all this isn't down to some mechanical glitch similar to the Doblo (and other Fiats?) and nothing to do with software glitches at all.

What might it be about Fiat clutches that precludes a guaranteed soft take-up?

 

[fiatdownunder]

Re: First to second gear

As mentioned earlier there was a clutch problem with Mk2 Punto's but apparently only Mk2s and it all got rectified.
Yes, the Dualogic is only an electro-hydrolic clutch mechanism and in theory shouldnt need just software updates but also like the Stilo Selespeed you have to manually adjust the clutch on that when it start to miss gears or judders.... maybe a possibility to try :idea:

 

[luvduvs]

Re: First to second gear

Well, here's my update (and no good news). The dealer that I've been emailing had checked (using my VIN and number plate) that there are no outstanding updates for my car. So I'm really confused now - another dealer told me an update (that would fix this problem) was released in mid Jan 07. And what's baffling is when I tried to contact the same dealer who told me this by phone, I was told there's no such person

Anyway, I'm going to drop my car off on Saturday at the 'email dealer', leave it for a week without driving it, and hopefully by then he can at least experience the juddering for himself. I doubt my original dealer had even bothered to check this when it was brought to their attention a few months ago, so no harm in trying with another dealer I guess. Having said that I doubt very much he can do much about it, given there is no apparent solution to this.

It doesn't look good, does it?

 

[fiatdownunder]

Re: First to second gear

Kevin, ask if the adjustment on the clutch is manual like that on the stilo Selespeeds, if so ask if it needs more than just a computer software update.
I came across it as i was writing a reply to the last post but the more i think of it the more it makes sense!

Cars judder when you dont have enough clutch/accelerator balance, if it isnt adjusted properly then it's going to judder no matter what software it trying to make it work....

What you reckon Ti? make sense?! or am i a salesman pissing on the wrong tyre?!

 

[luvduvs]

Re: First to second gear

Kevin, ask if the adjustment on the clutch is manual like that on the stilo Selespeeds, if so ask if it needs more than just a computer software update.
I came across it as i was writing a reply to the last post but the more i think of it the more it makes sense!

Cars judder when you dont have enough clutch/accelerator balance, if it isnt adjusted properly then it's going to judder no matter what software it trying to make it work....

What you reckon Ti? make sense?! or am i a salesman pissing on the wrong tyre?!

Ok, will get them to check.. this dealer sounds really helpful so I'm going to use my box-of-chocolate trick again

The key thing is, this problem is only there when the car has not been driven for about a week, and goes away after 15 - 20 minutes of driving. My gut feeling is something is not warmed up, like transmission oil, or clutch plates, or maybe something else.

 

[fiatdownunder]

Re: First to second gear

of my limited knowledge it is all pointing towards an adjustment of the clutch not the software....

 

[T14086]

Re: First to second gear

Ask garage to carry out a 'clutch drive check' using examiner,make sure they are aware that the engine must be at normal operating temperature.Garage can obtain more information/tests/results on e-learn.

 

[fiatdownunder]

Re: First to second gear

dont tell me a salesman is almost right on a diagnosis......
p.s what does the name stand for big T?!

 

[T14086]

Re: First to second gear

Personally I found gear changes on dualogic cars always a bit poor,the Fiat ones not as bad as many other makes.

Yes you might well be right & I agree that the examiner related clutch adjustments/set up setting seem the likely cause.It might well be a case of techs not fully trained on examiner or unsure of all its functions after all Fiat new to Australia.

 

[fiatdownunder]

Re: First to second gear

It might well be a case of techs not fully trained on examiner or unsure of all its functions after all Fiat new to Australia.

To be honest that shouldnt be an issue, i thought Fiat examiner and Alfa Examiner are the same system?!

and surely Dualogic is a smoother (yes, believe it or not!) system of the Selespeed? I'd get castrated if i said that in the showroom but it is, right?!

 

[luvduvs]

Re: First to second gear

Ask garage to carry out a 'clutch drive check' using examiner,make sure they are aware that the engine must be at normal operating temperature.Garage can obtain more information/tests/results on e-learn.

Thanks guys, I'm dropping my baby off tomorrow but they won't look at it until later next week. So what does the 'clutch drive check' actually check/do, and what else should I get them to focus on?

 

[T14086]

Re: First to second gear

To be honest that shouldnt be an issue, i thought Fiat examiner and Alfa Examiner are the same system?!

Well courses (both Fiat & Alfa) I have been on can vary between the makes but basically yes the same but its all about product knowledge.No good having parameters in front of you if you dont know what the mean/should do/change.

Are there alot of Fiat techs over there?.......:chin:

 

[luvduvs]

Re: First to second gear

Ok, here's another update. The dealer called and said he could experience the juddering, but couldn't work out why/how. They've contacted Fiat (AU); they're aware of this problem and apparently working on a solution to this. All sounds strikingly similar to what the original dealer told me (though this one didn't mention anything about software updates). Will be collecting it tomorrow.

(Incidentally the original dealer called me yesterday to check on how the juddering was going, and said if its still there then to take it back to them again for another inspection. Not much point in that given they don't know what the problem is.)

So, back to square one. Just have to wait for a solution and live with it in the meantime I guess

 

[Turbodiesel]

Re: First to second gear

At least it sounds like you're making progress...slowly

If it has caused any damage then they'll have to replace it with a new gearbox under warranty. I can't understand how these faults aren't found before the car is put into production.

 

[luvduvs]

Re: First to second gear

At least it sounds like you're making progress...slowly

Uh? What progress? My gut feeling is this will not be resolved any time soon, if ever.

If it has caused any damage then they'll have to replace it with a new gearbox under warranty. I can't understand how these faults aren't found before the car is put into production.

There's obviously a serious issue with QA and testing; either they're not doing it properly or they're not freaking doing it

 

[T14086]

Re: First to second gear

What question