General Fire engine (history lesson)

[matty23]

Good evening gang,

I've been reading a lot recently about the Fiat FIRE engine and how it dates back to the days of the Uno, Tipo, original Panda etc....

The reason I am bringing this up is because I'm intrigued as to how old this engine actually is and more specifically the code/engine names. The 1.2 (1242cc 8v) 60 bhp is 188A4000 which if I'm right meant the 1.2 8v was introduced through the Punto codenamed 188 (MK2). Which means the engine isn't actually that old!! Or is the 1.2 based on an old engine with the CC increased? Same applies to the 1.1 (187A4000) which code name 187 relates to the Seicento (1997-2010), which again isn't an ancient car!

So, where do the current FIRE engines originate from?

Many thanks,

Matt.

 

[AB100]

So, where do the current FIRE engines originate from?

Matt.

I believe the first FIRE engine was the 999cc version which made its debut in 1985 in the Autobianch/Lancia Y10 and then later the Uno and Panda.


Wikipedia Italy has the facts:


769 cm³ 8v (dal 1986 al 1992)
999 cm³ 8v (dal 1985 al 1992)
999 cm³ 8v SPI (dal 1987 al 2003)
999 cm³ 16v SMPI (dal 1998, solo in Brasile)
1 108 cm³ 8v (dal 1989 al 1993)
1 108 cm³ 8v SPI (dal 1993 al 2000)
1 108 cm³ 8v SMPI (dal 2001 al 2010 sostituito dal 1242 omologato Euro 5)
1 242 cm³ 8v SPI (dal 1993 al 2000)
1 242 cm³ 8v MPI (dal 1993 al 1999)
1 242 cm³ 8v SMPI (dal 2000, ancora in produzione)
1 242 cm³ 16v SMPI (dal 1997, ancora in produzione)
1 368 cm³ 8v SMPI (dal 2005, ancora in produzione)
1 368 cm³ 16v SMPI (dal 2003, ancora in produzione)

 

[varesecrazy]

The 2nd gen pandas appeared in the UK for 1985 C reg. In 1000 cl form. So Id assumed Europe / italy had seen it in 1984..?

Changed VERY little over the years. On a small one. look for the indent head feature for the fuel pump driven off the camshaft...
still there on EFI cars..when the pump was 6feet away.. under back seat.

 

[matty23]

Thanks guys,

So what were saying is that my 1.2 8v petrol dates back to 1993 (on the original Punto) but the block unit itself dates back to 1985 with the 999cc?

Matt.

 

[PandaEleganza]

Isn't it that the current 1.2 configuration (excepting recent tweaking for emissions) basically dates from 2000:
'1 242 cm³ 8v SMPI (dal 2000, ancora in produzione)'

It's like the Austin A-series engine, which first appeared in the early 50s but subsequently found its way - in a range of sizes from 803-1275cc - into many of that company's cars, notably the Mini. By 1999, it had MPI and was in many a different beast from the 50s version, but was still clearly related to it.

 

[matty23]

Hi,

I was thinking the same as you PandaEleganza, that the 1.2 FIRE was introduced around the year 2000 on the Punto - however the block design (possibly?) dates back to 1985 with the 999cc.

Matt.

 

[Eklipze3k]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fully_Integrated_Robotised_Engine

 

[Louie Bee]

Don't remember the tipo with a fire engine...

A 1108cc tipo?

 

[Eklipze3k]

Don't remember the tipo with a fire engine...

A 1108cc tipo?

"The 1.1 litre version was not available in the United Kingdom"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_Tipo

 

[Goudrons]

"The 1.1 litre version was not available in the United Kingdom"

That's the problem, different specs depending on what market the car was for.

They all went back quite a way, I seem to think the Y10 in 1985 was the first.

Different models had different specs, Carb, Single point, Multi Point and Sequential injection, with and without Cats, points or electronic ignition.

I wouldn't be surprised to find they were all in production in different cars, in different markets, all at the same time.

As it seems the need for power and cleaner emissions have steered it's development, there wouldn't be the need for the latest specs in certain countries.

The 1242cc does seem to appear in 1993 and over the years got different fueling and ignitions.

Yes, basically it's the same five bearing block and over the years they're just increased the bore and stroke to get different capacities, used different fueling and ignition systems and different heads and valve arrangements.

But at 31, it's still only a baby next to Rover's V8.
That first saw daylight in 1961 in a Buick as a 3.5 and were still being sold as late as 2006 in main stream production cars.
Though it still isn't dead as you can still get a 5.2 racing motor built from scratch, today!

 

[Louie Bee]

"The 1.1 litre version was not available in the United Kingdom"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_Tipo

history lesson indeed...

 

[varesecrazy]

The 1242cc does seem to appear in 1993 and over the years got different fueling and ignitions.

Yes, basically it's the same five bearing block and over the years they're just increased the bore and stroke to get different capacities, used different fueling and ignition systems and different heads and valve arrangements.

1242 - cc, introduction of the mk1 Punto was it's UK Debut,

as stated the 1108 Tipo wasn't in the Uk.. ;-)

 

[Goudrons]

as stated the 1108 Punto wasn't in the Uk..

1108cc Tipo not Punto.

The Punto 55S was a 1108cc with SPI and with a throbbing 55bhp. (the 60S was the 1242cc)
That was available in the UK, I had metallic Rose one.
I also remember it didn't have PAS, so the steering wheel had 999 turns, lock to lock!

 

[varesecrazy]

1108cc Tipo not Punto.

The Punto 55S was a 1108cc with SPI and with a throbbing 55bhp. (the 60S was the 1242cc)
That was available in the UK, I had metallic Rose one.
I also remember it didn't have PAS, so the steering wheel had 999 turns, lock to lock!

we had a
punto 55s (1108)

panda gen 3 1.1 active 1108

Cinquecento sporting 1108

all at the same time.., you wouldn't believe how different they all were..

 

[Louie Bee]

A few years ago I opened up 2 999cc engines. One block and crank had a lot less metal inside. my 93 spi Uno vs a 94 95 spi Uno.

Will have a look for the pic when the kids have finished with my PC.

 

[Louie Bee]

No find the pics on the PC.

But I did a thread on it way back when...

https://www.fiatforum.com/uno/223501-weight-variance-within-999cc-spi.html?p=2377479

Few pics and weights...