General Fiat Seincento Headlights

[bazerino100]

My car has failed MOT on both headlights, the reflectors can longer be adjusted & the adjusters have broke away from the reflectors, I cant find any right hand drive lights anywhere (new or second-hand) does anyone have any suggestions apart from giving up on it? Can they be fixed if I can remove the glass etc? Its a shame as the car has still got many years of life left in it.....

Cheers

Baz

 

[bugsymike]

My car has failed MOT on both headlights, the reflectors can longer be adjusted & the adjusters have broke away from the reflectors, I cant find any right hand drive lights anywhere (new or second-hand) does anyone have any suggestions apart from giving up on it? Can they be fixed if I can remove the glass etc? Its a shame as the car has still got many years of life left in it.....

Cheers

Baz

I have repaired/glued other make headlight adjusters back together in the past.
Presumably if adjusters fixed solid so light reflectors don't flop around , then it should be possible for the headlamps to be positioned in their mountings to give the correct beam pattern position to suit a reasonable co-operative Mot Tester.
Alternatively a pair of similar shape/style of headlamps with suitable adjusters could be mounted in the same position as originals, albeit with different fixing points, as long as secure and fully working.
In the past people used to replace the basic rectangular Ford Capri headlights for the pairs of smaller circular headlamps from the more sporting models.
Surely a bit of ingenuity is better than scrapping the car?

 

[bazerino100]

I have repaired/glued other make headlight adjusters back together in the past.
Presumably if adjusters fixed solid so light reflectors don't flop around , then it should be possible for the headlamps to be positioned in their mountings to give the correct beam pattern position to suit a reasonable co-operative Mot Tester.
Alternatively a pair of similar shape/style of headlamps with suitable adjusters could be mounted in the same position as originals, albeit with different fixing points, as long as secure and fully working.
In the past people used to replace the basic rectangular Ford Capri headlights for the pairs of smaller circular headlamps from the more sporting models.
Surely a bit of ingenuity is better than scrapping the car?

Hi, thanks for the advice, so they can only be fixed by gluing them solid with a bit of guess work & cant be adjusted afterwards? Yeh I remember the capri conversion, I'm 55 & actually looked online for some kind of boy racer headlight conversion (I'm that desperate) but no luck, i like the idea of trying to use a similar shape headlight that may fit, one thing, I have the 1.1 sporting that has motors to adjust the headlight if towing or have a lot of weight in the back, so if I did get a headlight from another vehicle that didn't have this feature, could I remove the switch & blank it off? Or would this fail the MOT as this is also on the failure sheet.....

Cheers
Baz

 

[bugsymike]

Hi, thanks for the advice, so they can only be fixed by gluing them solid with a bit of guess work & cant be adjusted afterwards? Yeh I remember the capri conversion, I'm 55 & actually looked online for some kind of boy racer headlight conversion (I'm that desperate) but no luck, i like the idea of trying to use a similar shape headlight that may fit, one thing, I have the 1.1 sporting that has motors to adjust the headlight if towing or have a lot of weight in the back, so if I did get a headlight from another vehicle that didn't have this feature, could I remove the switch & blank it off? Or would this fail the MOT as this is also on the failure sheet.....

Cheers
Baz

I have glued the electrical ones on Iveco Daily so they would still adjust.
Is it the up and down or the left and right adjustment or both , often just one gets a bit brittle. What happens is once it breaks away the reflector inside the headlamp can flop around.
I have an old Citroen AX and my neighbours Peugeot 205 headlamps are very similar , just a slight curve at one end to match the wing shape.
Presumably once they are in the correct position to pass the MOT then there would be little need to move them again, although I have had testers who used to adjust a headlamp every year if they could find nothing else to fail to give something to charge for.
If you can chat to your Mot tester and ask for his advice explaining the situation he hopefully will use a little commonsense, though it may be an idea to look up the Ministry of Transport /DVLA regulations regarding headlamp adjustment before hand.
Theoretically if you mounted a couple of tractor headlamps on the bonnet at the correct height , giving dip and main beam etc. correctly aligned it could meet legal requirments, though I am not advocating that.

 

[bazerino100]

I have glued the electrical ones on Iveco Daily so they would still adjust.
Is it the up and down or the left and right adjustment or both , often just one gets a bit brittle. What happens is once it breaks away the reflector inside the headlamp can flop around.
I have an old Citroen AX and my neighbours Peugeot 205 headlamps are very similar , just a slight curve at one end to match the wing shape.
Presumably once they are in the correct position to pass the MOT then there would be little need to move them again, although I have had testers who used to adjust a headlamp every year if they could find nothing else to fail to give something to charge for.
If you can chat to your Mot tester and ask for his advice explaining the situation he hopefully will use a little commonsense, though it may be an idea to look up the Ministry of Transport /DVLA regulations regarding headlamp adjustment before hand.
Theoretically if you mounted a couple of tractor headlamps on the bonnet at the correct height , giving dip and main beam etc. correctly aligned it could meet legal requirments, though I am not advocating that.

I've just come across this on eBay (Fiat Headlight front full set screw bolt adjuster) it says that this for my car, but I'm not sure what the square piece is on right is for? I'm going to have to separate the glass first & see what it looks like inside, I've read that you can put put the light in the oven for about 7 minutes, to soften the sealant, is there any other way?

Cheers

Baz

​

 

[porta]

https://m.autopartspro.co.uk/carparts-online/headlamp/fiat-seicento/seicento-187

 

[bugsymike]

I've just come across this on eBay (Fiat Headlight front full set screw bolt adjuster) it says that this for my car, but I'm not sure what the square piece is on right is for? I'm going to have to separate the glass first & see what it looks like inside, I've read that you can put put the light in the oven for about 7 minutes, to soften the sealant, is there any other way?

Cheers

Baz

​

If you do have to remove the glass (maybe with a hot knife) make sure it is fitted securely afterwards.
I recall some Vauxhall models had a habit of coming to a fast halt and the glass dropping out on the road, so the dealers had to fit a metal retaining clip to secure them.

 

[bazerino100]

https://m.autopartspro.co.uk/carparts-online/headlamp/fiat-seicento/seicento-187

Hi, thanks for the link, I've already seen these & actually ordered a pair as they where for (right hand traffic) & I thought they meant right hand drive but it means left hand drive vehicles, lucky I saw my mistake & quickly cancelled them, there do show out of stock for (Right hand drive vehicles) & a 200 days wait......

 

[bazerino100]

If you do have to remove the glass (maybe with a hot knife) make sure it is fitted securely afterwards.
I recall some Vauxhall models had a habit of coming to a fast halt and the glass dropping out on the road, so the dealers had to fit a metal retaining clip to secure them.

Yeh I actually thought about that happening, my headlights are fitted with metal clips to secure them, well anyway today I got a message from a salvage yard that had a 2002 fiat seicento that I saw last night that had just been advertised a few days ago had two headlights, there sending them out to me, I was taken back by the price £45 including delivery, which is very good, they say that car was used daily, so I'm hoping they can be put straight on to my car & wont need adjusting, just need to get the level adjustments motors working......

 

[porta]

Hi, thanks for the link, I've already seen these & actually ordered a pair as they where for (right hand traffic) & I thought they meant right hand drive but it means left hand drive vehicles, lucky I saw my mistake & quickly cancelled them, there do show out of stock for (Right hand drive vehicles) & a 200 days wait......

The more I hear about that site, the more I distrust it

 

[bazerino100]

The more I hear about that site, the more I distrust it

They were fairly quick on the refund & the company I ordered from where called autodoc, the call centre is based in the u.k but the parts are sent from Germany, there are a few other company's with different names but I think they are the same, good prices but not the part I needed....

 

[bazerino100]

Hi,
Just an update & a thank you once again to everyone who made an input, i eventually bought two second hand headlights from a similar aged Seicento, there where some ridiculous prices for just the one headlight for £85! I bought two for £45 including delivery, i bit the blokes hand off, the headlights came within a couple of days & they also included the motors & indicators, i had a bit of a problem when i removed one of the motors which i would advice not to do as removing them can have the same problem that i had with my previous ones where the plastic lugs fell apart, i put a bit of gorilla glue on it & not only did it hold it secure but also stayed attached when the headlight adjuster motors where operated, it passed its MOT so its good for another year.....

Cheers

Baz

 

[purf]

I meant to reply to this earlier. If you want new RHD headlights buy the LHD units. Put your original headlights in the oven on low heat for 5 mins. This softens the glue so you can very carefully remove the RHD glass. Do the same with the LHD units and swap the glass over. If you warm the glue again no further adesive is required and the metal clips make them very secure. Most if not all the old ones will have brittle plastic adjusters by now and mot testers have a habit of braking them in my experience. Currently the LHD items are £80/pair.

 

[bugsymike]

I meant to reply to this earlier. If you want new RHD headlights buy the LHD units. Put your original headlights in the oven on low heat for 5 mins. This softens the glue so you can very carefully remove the RHD glass. Do the same with the LHD units and swap the glass over. If you warm the glue again no further adesive is required and the metal clips make them very secure. Most if not all the old ones will have brittle plastic adjusters by now and mot testers have a habit of braking them in my experience. Currently the LHD items are £80/pair.

That is all very well to make them look like suitable for driving in the UK , but when you look at the beam pattern against a wall or when the MOT Tester checks it you will find when on Dip Beam the light pattern cut off will be shining up into oncoming traffic instead of up at the pavement direction warning of pedestrians etc.
Don't know if possible but in the 1970s when MOT Testing cars I noticed some French cars had a clip where the bulb sat that could be moved to alter position for Left or Right hand driving.
If you shine the beam against a wall a few feet away and with bulb slackened away from holder slightly and turn the bulb a little clock or anti clockwise you will see what I mean.

 

[purf]

That is all very well to make them look like suitable for driving in the UK , but when you look at the beam pattern against a wall or when the MOT Tester checks it you will find when on Dip Beam the light pattern cut off will be shining up into oncoming traffic instead of up at the pavement direction warning of pedestrians etc.
Don't know if possible but in the 1970s when MOT Testing cars I noticed some French cars had a clip where the bulb sat that could be moved to alter position for Left or Right hand driving.
If you shine the beam against a wall a few feet away and with bulb slackened away from holder slightly and turn the bulb a little clock or anti clockwise you will see what I mean.

Thanks - I've not heard this before. Is this becasue of the reflectors or just the bulb position? My car has passed a few mot's since.

 

[bugsymike]

Thanks - I've not heard this before. Is this becasue of the reflectors or just the bulb position? My car has passed a few mot's since.

I think the bulb position has the greatest effect.
Just shine the light up against a wall on dip beam to check. Where it is designed to show a definate cut off on dipped beam you should see a flat line with an angle of light going towards the pavement side. Depending on type of bulb and the holder you may be able to alter pattern for beam setting.

 

[Jamieboy]

Thanks - I've not heard this before. Is this becasue of the reflectors or just the bulb position? My car has passed a few mot's since.

That is all very well to make them look like suitable for driving in the UK , but when you look at the beam pattern against a wall or when the MOT Tester checks it you will find when on Dip Beam the light pattern cut off will be shining up into oncoming traffic instead of up at the pavement direction warning of pedestrians etc.
Don't know if possible but in the 1970s when MOT Testing cars I noticed some French cars had a clip where the bulb sat that could be moved to alter position for Left or Right hand driving.
If you shine the beam against a wall a few feet away and with bulb slackened away from holder slightly and turn the bulb a little clock or anti clockwise you will see what I mean.

That's interesting - I looked at a pair of LHD units with the intention of doing this exactly. The reflector part, into which the bulb also sits, is stamped with the same part# as the RHD unit. @purf - any chance you could check the beam pattern as @bugsymike has kindly illustrated? I was under the impression (possibly incorrectly in light of the is new information, so to speak) that the glass with its patterning that was the differentiator.

 

[bugsymike]

There is a little bit online from the Mot testers manual , it's dated 2014 so may have been superceeded, but mentions the use of masks or convertor kits to prevent light on dip beam showing beam"kick up" to the right for use and MOT in the UK , but does use the word temporary.
I know in the past you often saw cars with a sticker like that , for those going abroad etc.

https://mattersoftesting.blog.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/sites/19/2016/03/Headlamp-aim-changes-for-24-March-2016-Classes-3-4-5-and-7.pdf

 

[purf]

That's interesting - I looked at a pair of LHD units with the intention of doing this exactly. The reflector part, into which the bulb also sits, is stamped with the same part# as the RHD unit. @purf - any chance you could check the beam pattern as @bugsymike has kindly illustrated? I was under the impression (possibly incorrectly in light of the is new information, so to speak) that the glass with its patterning that was the differentiator.

I'll take a photo of the beam pattern of my seicento headlights. I'm sure they are fine else it would have failed mot. I had read in the past on this forum that it was the glass which alters the beam to suit lhd or rhd.

 

[bugsymike]

I'll take a photo of the beam pattern of my seicento headlights. I'm sure they are fine else it would have failed mot. I had read in the past on this forum that it was the glass which alters the beam to suit lhd or rhd.

It may depend on the type of beam pattern cut off when on dip beam, some types of lamp do not dip to left or right, merely up and down with a sort of larger "blob" of light in the centre. I believe some American ones are like that.
If light shined on garage wall or similar from a couple of feet away that should show enough to tell.
I did have a proper Mot beam setter/tester the type that sits on rails, but got fed up with tripping over it and weighed it in, only a couple of months ago.