Technical Fiat quality never fails to impress

[jrkitching]

Maybe the "type" of driver Panda generally the silver hair brigade 500 often newly passed drivers and the type of driving-to the shops or bowling and back or round town off to friends work etc?

I think that's part of it. Driving style has a substantial effect on suspension component life. Driven gently, the suspension parts in the 1.2 Panda can run 100k+ and still be MOT-worthy. I know this, because I've done it.

Almost all 169's were sold with the 60HP engine, which doesn't encourage or need to be revved as highly as the 69HP VVT unit in the 1.2 500. Most of the Pandas sold were the base model 1.1/1.2 versions, running on 13" wheels and skinny tyres, so the Panda suspension, whilst using the same or similar parts, isn't as highly stressed. The 500 sells on looks, not price, and many cars were specified with larger wheels & wider tyres, so it's not that surprising that suspension parts which are just about adequate for the Panda are failing prematurely on 500's.

Also, although the cars in basic form share perhaps 90% of the mechanical parts, it's the 10% that are different that give rise to many of 500 issues we see here. Hatch wiring issues and dashboard electronic failures have caused a lot of grief to 500 owners; something that's almost never seen in the Panda section. And when cambelt change time comes, the quirky belt change procedure for the VVT engine gives endless oppportunities for both DIY types and independent garages to go wrong and get into difficulties.

 

[Ralf S.]

Maybe the "type" of driver Panda generally the silver hair brigade 500 often newly passed drivers and the type of driving-to the shops or bowling and back or round town off to friends work etc?

Aye.. but I could understand if that meant dented rims, broken steering racks and knackered clutches and gearboxes... but we have shocks failing and rubber components going manky before time..? It's a strange one...


Ralf S.

 

[irc]

I think that's part of it. Driving style has a substantial effect on suspension component life. Driven gently, the suspension parts in the 1.2 Panda can run 100k+ and still be MOT-worthy. I know this, because I've done it.

Almost all 169's were sold with the 60HP engine, which doesn't encourage or need to be revved as highly as the 69HP VVT unit in the 1.2 500. Most of the Pandas sold were the base model 1.1/1.2 versions, running on 13" wheels and skinny tyres, so the Panda suspension, whilst using the same or similar parts, isn't as highly stressed. The 500 sells on looks, not price, and many cars were specified with larger wheels & wider tyres, so it's not that surprising that suspension parts which are just about adequate for the Panda are failing prematurely on 500's.

Also, although the cars in basic form share perhaps 90% of the mechanical parts, it's the 10% that are different that give rise to many of 500 issues we see here. Hatch wiring issues and dashboard electronic failures have caused a lot of grief to 500 owners; something that's almost never seen in the Panda section. And when cambelt change time comes, the quirky belt change procedure for the VVT engine gives endless oppportunities for both DIY types and independent garages to go wrong and get into difficulties.

Not to mention door handles made out of cheese, and strange front lights that seem to magically disintegrate... never seems to happen on a Panda.
(Apologies if that sounds cranky... just had 2 in with both problems within a week of each other)
Although to be fair, Panda 169 door handles do stick up when not used enough.

 

[The Panda Nut]

I do like fixing cars,

Ah ha. Free tea and cake on offer here then!

 

[The Panda Nut]

Not to mention door handles made out of cheese, and strange front lights that seem to magically disintegrate... never seems to happen on a Panda.
(Apologies if that sounds cranky... just had 2 in with both problems within a week of each other)
Although to be fair, Panda 169 door handles do stick up when not used enough.

I was talking with mt local garage owner and he said much the same of the 500. He says the Panda seems OK but wouldnt want a 500 and partly due to lack of space to work.

PANDAS ON THE TOP!

 

[The Panda Nut]

Maybe the "type" of driver Panda generally the silver hair brigade 500 often newly passed drivers and the type of driving-to the shops or bowling and back or round town off to friends work etc?

I take it you mean Panda drivers are
1 More sensible
2 Better looking
3 Better at choosing the best vehicle!

AL D who used to drive a decent car (before founcing off to some easten sourced product) may in fact be the proof that driving style and age have a major bearing on machinery lifespan. He was always breaking his Panda, but freely admitted to making liberal use of ots best speed!

 

[eeeno]

I had an old Peugeot 106 which was utter rubbish. It was a little over ten years old and had done only 17k miles, paint looked great and the chassis was like new. However my late uncle who had owned it previously, hadn't even had the cambelt changed to it and he drove it like mad, flooring the accelerator, finding any pothole he could. It had worn outer cv joint which only made noise when turning after longer trip. Other than that it was fine until I found out that the rubber cv boots needed changing almost every year because the rubber quality in spare parts is rubbish and no original parts were available. What a headache, so keeping this french car was going to be like a hobby and it was very low mileage.

The most funniest thing happened when the rear brake drums became stuck - and they'd been serviced just two years ago. It's known that this type of drums need extra care. Also the rear brake cylinder had failed - at just few years of age. WHOA. I fixed the brakes myself because i couldn't drive it anywhere. . Well - it wasn't fun. French design *is* awful and still is if I compare it to a Fiat. Fiat is so silly and easy to fix.

The rear shocks were almost broken but the real issue was that the right side of the rear axle was becoming stuck. It wouldn't be fixed even with new shocks because the real issue was the gradually failing french rear axle. It became a safety hazard in winter and just had to sell it for crisps. The car had only 37k miles at that point and it had developed too many issues. I think this small supermini class of cars aren't even real cars and you should only compare cars of the same class and their durability.

Imagine, there's still this hobbyist happily driving my old Peugeot and fixing it.

 

[rmjbn1]

Panda generally the silver hair brigade

Ha ha! I was on the point of responding "oi!"...
...then I looked in the mirror.
Fair enough. You've got our number

I usually drive old cars, and the 169 Panda is the only one that doesn't rust everywhere, which can be such a pain to keep on top of that I'm happy to forgive the FIAT its occasional cheap component failures.

Most of my other cars were old Citroens, so I understand all too well how frustrating electrical gremlins can be!

No idea why we don't get these on the Panda. It's only the tailgate release switch that doesn't work on ours. And in a way I'm glad it doesn't - if everything worked I'd always be worrying about what's going to pack up. Now I don't have to because it already has

 

[The Panda Nut]

Ha ha! I was on the point of responding "oi!"...
...then I looked in the mirror.
Fair enough. You've got our number

I usually drive old cars, and the 169 Panda is the only one that doesn't rust everywhere, which can be such a pain to keep on top of that I'm happy to forgive the FIAT its occasional cheap component failures.

Most of my other cars were old Citroens, so I understand all too well how frustrating electrical gremlins can be!

No idea why we don't get these on the Panda. It's only the tailgate release switch that doesn't work on ours. And in a way I'm glad it doesn't - if everything worked I'd always be worrying about what's going to pack up. Now I don't have to because it already has

I dismantled out tailgate switch, dried it out and treated it with contact cleaner, then wiped the rubber seals with silicon sealant let that cure and put it back. its been OK for 3 years now. Nissan Micra was similarly afflicted. a 50p microswitch from Maplin sorted that.

PS Grecian 2000 now on sale for Panda drivers. Its said to disguise the stereo type we all clearly have.....

 

[rmjbn1]

I dismantled out tailgate switch, dried it out and treated it with contact cleaner, then wiped the rubber seals with silicon sealant let that cure and put it back. its been OK for 3 years now. Nissan Micra was similarly afflicted. a 50p microswitch from Maplin sorted that.

PS Grecian 2000 now on sale for Panda drivers. Its said to disguise the stereo type we all clearly have.....

Heh - I've been told the salt & pepper makes me looks 'distinguished'. Heaven forbid. If that's what I wanted I wouldn't be cruising around in a turquoise Panda.

I've removed the tailgate handle & cleaned the switch a couple of times which got it working intermittently for a few months. I did wonder about replacing the switch, but I don't know if I can be bothered. Which in my experience usually means I can't

 

[rmjbn1]

I am sure these bushes could be obtained from a specialist supplier. My 2014 Panda at 37,000 miles have just started clonking so maybe Ill find out. If I find bushes I shall buy half a dozen sets and put the extras up at cost on here.

I'd be very interested if you do go down this route. I was considering replacing just the rubber bushes when they were an MOT advisory...
...but then it failed on a ball joint so I just replaced both lower suspension arms.
I didn't like the idea of slinging all that metal for the sake of a couple of rubber bushes and ball joints, but it's much less work!

I agree with the OP that the suspension arm bushes are one of the weak points on the car.

I've read on here that aftermarket replacements can vary in quality & lifespan, so if mine start to go again, I'd be tempted to try alternative bushes.

 

[vexorg]

I did notice that even the replacement 500 arm bushes were significantly wimpier than the citroen replacement. Both made by Napa, but the citroen bushes looked like precast into heavy metal rings that were pressed into the arms.