Technical fiat punto smoking and missing after new head gasket

[milopware]

Thanks chaps for advice, will take plugs out tomorrow. Reason for assuming rings as problem is that I know the head is 100% as just been refurbished as earlier in thread. Will post results.

 

[milopware]

OK so I took the plugs out before I did anything and in picture left to right cylinders 1-4... number 3 looks black and oily ...

thought id do the dry / wet compression test anyways and results are:

Dry: 1=212, 2=195, 3=205, 4=210 (all PSI)
5ml of oil: 1=225, 2=220, 3=217, 4=245

not sure if these results are good or bad as I don't know what I should be expecting to get compression wise from it?

I have also uploaded video of the smoking exhaust: http://youtu.be/BvdESBtNbiw

and this of the engine once warmed up to see if anything is 'chuffing' out of the rocker cover, I don't think there is.
http://youtu.be/yvSdFBfBDMk

Any more ideas chaps, what do you think of the compression test results?

 

[s and b]

looking at everything there it would appear you have the same issues i had with a punto last year
your compression rings are good but your oil control rings are shot
on taking the pistons out of my engine the oil control rings fell in pieces
you could always re ring the engine of course
the one i had i suspect it broke the rings because there was too much oil in the sump

 

[milopware]

How difficult is it to change rings on one of these? is it not easier just to switch the engine? Although heart breaking to have spent so much on the head to get it A1!

 

[s and b]

How difficult is it to change rings on one of these? is it not easier just to switch the engine? Although heart breaking to have spent so much on the head to get it A1!

head off
sump off
remove pistons and rods from top of block
replace rings
hone if needed or a quick wet n dry

i scrapped mine and fitted another donkey because parts of the ring were found in the sump

 

[milopware]

Not an 'engine out' job then?

 

[s and b]

Not an 'engine out' job then?

no but realistically engines better out because even engine mounting needs removing to undo cambelt
it all comes down to time/cost
set of rings head gasket timing belt etc etc
compared to complete new (s/h) donkey thrown in

 

[milopware]

So its decision time... Abandon the refurbished head and dump a second hand engine in there (means finding one, picking up or getting delivered then hoping its a straight swap and it works properly, then swapping ancillaries, getting shot of old engine) or get some new rings and swap them.....

I'm guessing that the head is refurbished, if I do the rings hopefully nothing else too major could go wrong in the engine or am I being a bit naïve?

I guess other stuff could still go wrong?

whats the vote on this, anyone done rings on one of these before?

 

[milopware]

May start strip down for replacing rings tomorrow, hopefully it's head off / sump off then undo big ends and pop pistons out the top... I hope!!! Will post pics as I go might assist others on 'how not to' lol.

 

[Ziggy122]

Make sure you remove any fat lips from the top of the bore
a new piston ring set may hit that lip and break....

I've never honed a cylinder - not something i wanna try either!

Ziggy

 

[milopware]

Well the time has come, found some free time and I have removed the engine from the Punto and it was surprisingly easy, did it on my own!

Engine is stripped and pistons etc out...
Have checked and the oil control rings are all gunked up on 1 & 3 so definitely the issue.

First one is number 3 second one is number 4 the oil rings all clogged with gunk on number 3 and number 1 not far behind it either...

The bores are un scored and all else looks in good order so this weekend I will be de glazing the cylinder bores, replacing the rings, head gasket head bolts (again)! Timing belt & tensioner, water pump, thermostat, bottom engine mount, oil, filter antifreeze etc.

Will be taking loads of pics in case anyone is interested!

 

[Ziggy122]

the rings been coked up is a sign of oil had degraded and baked on
Somewhere in its life an oil change was missed or was late

IIRC - it was £15 from local auto factors for 1cylinders rings....

Ziggy

 

[fingers99]

You can re-use the head bolts up to twice (3 torque ups in total). No-where is it documented otherwise.

 

[milopware]

Yes I was reading a technical manual and it says no need to replace head bolts but I have already got some so may as well put em in...

So far I have deglazed cylinders:

Changed rings (broke 1 set and swore a lot) and yes price is £19 per set

Before and after cylinder 1
Reinstalled and torqued big ends

Cleaned sump and refitted

New clutch de greased and fitted using my patented alignment tool

Loaded back into car

Starter motor fitted

Started to fit alternator but knackered, to be continued!

 

[milopware]

So alternator on, new timing belt & tensioner supplied were wrong ones so I had to reuse old ones for now:
Timed up TDC in bottom pulley

Head gasket fitted then the head
New thermostat fitted

Connect pipes and plugs

TDC on cam shaft

Engine mount & rocker cover on

Oil and water and connect charged battery and start the sucker up...
NO SMOKE!!!

 

[milopware]

http://youtu.be/2tP_yb6wA08

 

[milopware]

Now for the next problem, whilst refitting the alternator I noticed it didn't rotate freely so thought maybe a dry bearing as it rotated freely 3/4 of a turn then seemed to go tight then was free again on each spin. Thought maybe a little 3 in 1 oil on the bearings may help but couldn't separate the alternator so I just dripped some in each end then span it which seemed to do the trick...
The problem is now when the car is started from cold it's fine, battery light goes off and all good after about 2 mins the battery light comes on and the power steering stops working and steering gets really heavy. voltage at battery with engine running is 11.9V... Does this mean my alternator is fubar?

 

[mrcinquecento]

Now for the next problem, whilst refitting the alternator I noticed it didn't rotate freely so thought maybe a dry bearing as it rotated freely 3/4 of a turn then seemed to go tight then was free again on each spin. Thought maybe a little 3 in 1 oil on the bearings may help but couldn't separate the alternator so I just dripped some in each end then span it which seemed to do the trick...
The problem is now when the car is started from cold it's fine, battery light goes off and all good after about 2 mins the battery light comes on and the power steering stops working and steering gets really heavy. voltage at battery with engine running is 11.9V... Does this mean my alternator is fubar?

Yes.

 

[fingers99]

Almost certainly. Or just maybe a loose connection.

Fully charged battery should give 12.6v, everything off, something like 14.4 across terminals engine running.

11.9 is woeful.

 

[Ziggy122]

Check that really thin wire that attaches to the back of the alternator

For some reason - when i did engine change - i snapped mine, turns out the alternator doesn't kick in properly without it - yet all it does is switch the battery light off on the dash

Ziggy