french bean said:
Very sensible & realistic post
.......I disagree with the last bit as independents would struggle with huge training bills plus large dealership groups buy/sell more by buying in bulk,also techs go to dealerships for job security.
Fiat Mechanic's Opinion of Fiats
- Thread starter Steven
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Fiat Mechanic's Opinion of Fiats
Very sensible & realistic post
.......I disagree with the last bit as independents would struggle with huge training bills plus large dealership groups buy/sell more by buying in bulk,also techs go to dealerships for job security.
jug said:
So where did you get this info from then Jug?
Fiats used to rust, away from the sunshine and Pasta of Italy they just pined to death in cold wet England and this made them cheap. When they addressed this by galvanising them they became irresistable on price and the Italian character and sporting tradition came free. If you count Ferrari as part of the group they have the longest racing pedigree of any maker. I bought a Tempra TD in 1995 still under warranty ex Fiat fleet in 1995, that car was run once round the clock by me, then the same again by my son in law and was only sold this year still on its original engine, gearbox and exhaust system! The Marea Weekend that replaced it in 2001 has been no trouble and it is stuffed with electrical and electronic gizmos. I know people with German badged cars that cost house money that have 10x the trouble I have had. I have no idea what car comes next, perhaps a Stilo JTD Multiwagon would be pushing my luck?
wotnowarninglight
Member
Renegade_8 said:
Would point you in the direction of the Phase II Stilo JTD MW like me dads, definately better build quality that the two Phase I's I've had/got... your post has bourne my earlier post out, if you buy them prudently, i.e right condition / age / mileage you can with a little luck and an open mind end up with good bargain
Renegade_8 said:
Maybe not, like you I have run previous Fiats and the last one was a Marea. I must admit I had discounted the Stilo because of well publicised reliability issues but went ahead and bought a JTD MW. So far after 2k miles it's been fine and the mpg is good. I still have to get use to a couple of idiosyncracies and I expect something to go wrong but it's not as bad as I was led to believe. (touchwood).
NumanR
Established member
As a Fiat dealer expert technician, I can only say that Fiats are on the whole reliable cars, Ulysse as everyone in the know will tell you is a PSA vehicle with a Fiat badge, and in my opinion the most problematic vehicle in the Fiat range. Phase 2 Stilos are very good, so good in fact I bought a three door jtd and I absolutely love it. I have also got 3 bravas, 2 multiplas, and a Grande in the family, all of which have been reliable and comfortable cars. Fiat arent perfect, but if you look at what a tech drives and why he drives it, we have 10 techs, (4 fiats and 1 alfa, 2 ford and 2 vauxhalls, and a Pug), and the vauxhall drivers have had most problems with their cars, followed by 1 of the fords. The fiats and alfa have had no problems.
NumanR said:
that means french crap iirc
I'm surprised and not suprised by this thread in equal measure.
Fiat haven't really spent much time / money cracking the perceived quality thing. By comparison, VAG in particular have really got the perception of their product licked - where in the UK the common man understands brands such as TDi, GTi etc and thinks of VW as a by-word for quality.
In both these extreme cases, the truth is more complex. Fiats are generally a better experience than we are led to believe; VAG cars have often been mediocre compared to the expectations of them (I'm thinking Mk4 GTi, old A3, average reliability ratings and so on).
I've recently bought a GP, but I'm hardly the gullible price-focused ignoramus some might think a new Fiat buyer was by reading some posts! Everyone has a natual tendency to justify their choice of car, so I won't dwell... but suffice to say that I considered the GP alongside "quality" brands and did my research. Not least, I'd already owned potentially the most nightmare Fiat (Coupe 20V Turbo) twice - and practically nowt went wrong.
Fiat's problem in recent years has been as much a problem of PR and advertising as much as its products in my opinion.
Fiat haven't really spent much time / money cracking the perceived quality thing. By comparison, VAG in particular have really got the perception of their product licked - where in the UK the common man understands brands such as TDi, GTi etc and thinks of VW as a by-word for quality.
In both these extreme cases, the truth is more complex. Fiats are generally a better experience than we are led to believe; VAG cars have often been mediocre compared to the expectations of them (I'm thinking Mk4 GTi, old A3, average reliability ratings and so on).
I've recently bought a GP, but I'm hardly the gullible price-focused ignoramus some might think a new Fiat buyer was by reading some posts! Everyone has a natual tendency to justify their choice of car, so I won't dwell... but suffice to say that I considered the GP alongside "quality" brands and did my research. Not least, I'd already owned potentially the most nightmare Fiat (Coupe 20V Turbo) twice - and practically nowt went wrong.
Fiat's problem in recent years has been as much a problem of PR and advertising as much as its products in my opinion.
well over the years fiat have got alot of fings right that most bigmanufacturers havent
for example
rock solid engines (mechanicly not nesiserily electricly)
galvanised body shels (ford dont do that yet) first cars fiat fully galvanised was the old croma
almost every electrical conecter has a synthetic ruber seal on it (ethen my uno)
wheel bearings ask any mechanic fiat bearings are replaced few and far between
ease of maintenance again ask any mechanic they are easy to work on specialy the 176 punto and uno
quality of materials most fasterers come undone first time (last time i worked on a nissan i lost count of how many bolts i broke
brakes (i have always found that most fiats have well servoed brakes a good fing if you have to stop quick)
comon sence just to name one of many good ideas a hach under back seats on most fiats so you can get to the fuel sender (how many cars do you have to drop numerouse suspension parts and tank to get to that also handy if you want to drain a missfuel without a lift
gearboxes almost all fiat have a very positive gearchange and practicly indestructable gearbox my uno has run out of oil twice and not had any side afects wich reminds me i must fix that leak
diagnostics equipment in my opinion fiat has some of the best unfortunately it is youseless if you dont know how to use it properly and most people dont
i must admit thou fiat dont check up on what kind of service their dealers are providing these days so when it comes to old cars or something that takes alot of work they simply arent intrested and sell people new cars instead
also fiat parts are good if i order a part that is in the country before 5pm it will arive on the door step 11pm that night via TNT if it is in another country it will be about 3 days and the parts for older fiats are a very reasonable price
also resently every new car fiat brings out seems to have electrical problems but as the model progresses the quality improves dramaticly as parts are modified and ecu remaps become available so it's best to hang back and see what kind of problems they have before you buy
another grate problem of fiats (wich i fink has already been pointed out on this fourm is addvertising
) the hardly ever advertise cars these day
at the moment i whould say some of the best fiats are the panda made in poland dobilo made in turkey an the old 188 puntos were quite reliable towards the end also the croma loocks a good car
for example
rock solid engines (mechanicly not nesiserily electricly)
galvanised body shels (ford dont do that yet) first cars fiat fully galvanised was the old croma
almost every electrical conecter has a synthetic ruber seal on it (ethen my uno)
wheel bearings ask any mechanic fiat bearings are replaced few and far between
ease of maintenance again ask any mechanic they are easy to work on specialy the 176 punto and uno
quality of materials most fasterers come undone first time (last time i worked on a nissan i lost count of how many bolts i broke
brakes (i have always found that most fiats have well servoed brakes a good fing if you have to stop quick)
comon sence just to name one of many good ideas a hach under back seats on most fiats so you can get to the fuel sender (how many cars do you have to drop numerouse suspension parts and tank to get to that also handy if you want to drain a missfuel without a lift
gearboxes almost all fiat have a very positive gearchange and practicly indestructable gearbox my uno has run out of oil twice and not had any side afects wich reminds me i must fix that leak
diagnostics equipment in my opinion fiat has some of the best unfortunately it is youseless if you dont know how to use it properly and most people dont
i must admit thou fiat dont check up on what kind of service their dealers are providing these days so when it comes to old cars or something that takes alot of work they simply arent intrested and sell people new cars instead
also fiat parts are good if i order a part that is in the country before 5pm it will arive on the door step 11pm that night via TNT if it is in another country it will be about 3 days and the parts for older fiats are a very reasonable price
also resently every new car fiat brings out seems to have electrical problems but as the model progresses the quality improves dramaticly as parts are modified and ecu remaps become available so it's best to hang back and see what kind of problems they have before you buy
another grate problem of fiats (wich i fink has already been pointed out on this fourm is addvertising
) the hardly ever advertise cars these day
at the moment i whould say some of the best fiats are the panda made in poland dobilo made in turkey an the old 188 puntos were quite reliable towards the end also the croma loocks a good car
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iz inglish yor ferst langwage?
its pretty hard to find a car that has no access panel in the boot or under the seats for the fuel pump & sender unit (apart from superminis or cars where the pump is not accessed from above).littlepip17 said:
are you kidding? synchromesh failure isnt uncommon at 40-50k on my car. also the 1.2 bravo goes through gearboxes more regluarly than any other car i know of.littlepip17 said:
in my experience fiat part supplies are among the slowest (and most expensive for 'shopping' cars). i was a self employed mechanic for 4 years, and few things were less convenient than a fiat dealer only part. unless your car is still for sale on the forecourt they dont stock a single part. you need to wait 3+ days every time. compare that to ford dealers who still stock enough parts to make a brand new mark 5 escort.littlepip17 said:
fiat's electrical "niggling faults" have been around a very long time, and if anything they have improved over the years. you cant have been alive very long if you think its a recent problem. in the past fiats were well known for rust and electrical failures, they tried hard to make improvements during the 90s and it certainly made a difference, although electrical faults seem to be persistent with all Fiat S.p.A products even today.littlepip17 said:
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at 30000 miles my marea's bottom end destroyed itself had to wait 2 weeks on a crankshaft. at 35000 the gearbox destroyed itself. not all fiats are easy to work on try doing something other than look at the engine cover on alittlepip17 said:
5 pot!
Agree with Jug, the springs that hold the rear brake shoes for the Cinq were quoted to me by Fiat at £45 a set, got a set at factors for £5 and also they would have to order it in! Earlier in the year there was a shortage of gearbox mountss for the Cinq, no date given for delivery wait time about 6 weeks iirc.
Rear wheel bearings seem to be quite a common fail on the Cinq, given their age I've sheared many a bolt, it's a corrosion thing not the quality of te fastener.
Liam
Rear wheel bearings seem to be quite a common fail on the Cinq, given their age I've sheared many a bolt, it's a corrosion thing not the quality of te fastener.
Liam
jug said:
Fords
I agree with pip. the quality of electrical connectors and some 3rd party fittings are excellent on fiats, when compared to the competitors of the day, e/g ford ka, vauxhall corsa b, kia picanto, citroen paxo. the fittings are far better.
where fiat struggles and a lot of people get their ideas is the dealer networks. Yes fiat ARE looking into it, but from many ppls point of view nothing is happening, including mine, tis still bad up here.
And th motoring press. HOW many times do you read a write up on a new fiat vehicle and it have factory faults (standard feature ) and then it be sent without these faults corrected to the worlds motoring press.
How thick are they!!! You've got to send a flawless model otherwise they are shooting themselves in the foot.
I spoke to a woman last night where I work. She had bought an X reg alfa 156 2.4jtd saloon, and loved it to bits. Everyone had told her NOT to get a fiat or alfa because of this and that. She ignored them all, bagged it for under £3k. and has NEVER looked back since. her husband now owns a 2.5 v6 156 sportwagon, and her son has a fiat stilo jtd 115.
NONE Of them have ever had a problem, they make use of their own local mechanics, who were at first synical, but after a year of dealing with these cars, apparently they are turning his ideas!!
where fiat struggles and a lot of people get their ideas is the dealer networks. Yes fiat ARE looking into it, but from many ppls point of view nothing is happening, including mine, tis still bad up here.
And th motoring press. HOW many times do you read a write up on a new fiat vehicle and it have factory faults (standard feature
) and then it be sent without these faults corrected to the worlds motoring press. How thick are they!!! You've got to send a flawless model otherwise they are shooting themselves in the foot.
I spoke to a woman last night where I work. She had bought an X reg alfa 156 2.4jtd saloon, and loved it to bits. Everyone had told her NOT to get a fiat or alfa because of this and that. She ignored them all, bagged it for under £3k. and has NEVER looked back since. her husband now owns a 2.5 v6 156 sportwagon, and her son has a fiat stilo jtd 115.
NONE Of them have ever had a problem, they make use of their own local mechanics, who were at first synical, but after a year of dealing with these cars, apparently they are turning his ideas!!
jug said:
i dont care what you say about what i say its only my opinion for gods sake but dont pic faults with my speeling i'm dislexic live with it
also by recently i meant software problems with electrics not hardware
i am well aware of fiats many electrical problems other the years
althou saying that nine out of ten times they are bad earths
if you come to fiat for a part it will be on stock order and take 3 or more days
howether if your car is in for work and you need it back parts go on vor (vehicle off road ) and turn up that night ready for the next day
so from a mechanics point of view parts delivery is good
but from the punter over the counter it isesnt
and this is a mechanics opinions page is it not
peugeot only get 3 deliverys a week as far as i'm aware
fiat could have up to 12 in theory
twice a day and saterday
and yes dealers often only have parts for curent models
althou fiat could practicly build an uno from the parts kept at their main warehouse at warington and they can be on you door step in 6 hours if ordered before 5 i ordered a fuel filler cap for my uno after mine was stolen and it was stolen again so i ordered a locking one and in both cases they turned up the next day and the same for some leaky seals that neaded replacing on my distributer housing
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T14086 said:
kia dont susuki dont honda dont
bozzy said:
Still waiting Jug.
The Beast said:
well your car has probably not had it's oil changed or alternatly has had the wrong oil in
your engine has sprayers in the bottom end spaying oil onto the piston crowns and crankshaft
if the oil is to thick it wll not spay out of these
try a cluch on an older citroen with hydroelastic suspension and then youl no what work is
their are some cuning ways to get heads and gear boxes off a 20v fiat
my dad did a cam belt on a fiat coupe 20v turbo in 3.5 the book time is something like 9.5
jug said:
the new punto is the same floor pan as the new corsa but halfway throu developing the floor pan with vauxhall they broke up and fiat made theirs 50mm longer so the car has more leg room in the back also the new corsa is being sold with that good old 3 pot petrol vauxhall like so much
no mach for the fiat petrol engines the reasone vauxhall joined with fiat was to get hold of their multijet diesel engine as theirs were crapalso the punto loocks alot nicer than the corsa
littlepip17 said:
Couldn't agree more. As for the reputed improved fit and finish in the Corsa, we'll see in 18 months time which car has the sturdier interior.
By the way, Dyslexia runs in our family so can understand where you're coming from with regard to certain comments.
