Technical Fiat ducato 2.8i jtd not starting after winter

[Yorkysteve]

Hi I have a 2001 fiat ducato 2.8i jtd motorhome 2001 tried to start it after winter but engine turned over but not firing. I changed fuel filter but no fuel coming out of pipe. I checked the tank float pipes and no fuel coming from there when engine turns over and cannot locate fuel pump. It worked perfectly before winter but was left with a full tank of deisel over winter any ideas anyone. Thank you

 

[Yorkysteve]

Thank you all will send photos asap

 

[Yorkysteve]

Here are some pics if they help

 

[jackwhoo]

The orange light in the shape of a key with the word code beneath......Does it go out after a couple seconds of key on?

 

[Communicator]

@Yorkysteve .

Your vehicle will be an x230 model, but have you been able confirm that the engine is a 2.8idTD (8140.43).

Warning lights.

The immobiliser warning light will be orange in colour, but it may be combined with another warning light.

After switching the ignition ON, you should eventually be left with battery warning, oil warning, and handbrake.

If you have an immobiliser that is failing to recognise your key, then you should have an orange warning light. In this case there will be no fuel to the injectors, but this will also apply if the filter is not full of fuel.

You need to get fuel flowing out of the filter, before worrying about the immobiliser, but if you do have a warning light
please confirm.

I am attaching a diagram of a fuel filter for the later x244 model, as that is all that I have access to. Should be similar to yours as regards inlet and outlet connections.

 

[Communicator]

The orange light in the shape of a key with the word code beneath......Does it go out after a couple seconds of key on?

And if not, there are a few things to try.

 

[jackwhoo]

Do not under any circumstances leave the key in the ignition (even if in off position)
When disconnecting or reconnecting the vehicle battery

 

[Yorkysteve]

Will check all suggestions thank you and get back. Thanks everyone again

 

[bugsymike]

Looking at the photos it does appear to be a 2.8itid, not a JTD common rail, so probably one of the late ones before JTD introduced.
Without the turbo pipe removed it is hard to see if it is a Bosch injector pump or not, I am surprised there is no form of primer or lift pump in the system.
The only Fiat I had that didn't was a 03 Doblo with the Lucas EPIC pump that "sucked" in many ways! I finally located an air leak on the plastic pipe connector at the fuel tank. Fiat wanted £200 for new flow and return pipes , but I was able to fix using new rubber fuel line and clips for £7 odd.
I proved the problem on that one by putting a temporary fuel supply on bonnet to gravity feed the EPIC pump and van ran straight away.

 

[jackwhoo]

Looking at the photos it does appear to be a 2.8itid, not a JTD common rail, so probably one of the late ones before JTD introduced.
Without the turbo pipe removed it is hard to see if it is a Bosch injector pump or not, I am surprised there is no form of primer or lift pump in the system.
The only Fiat I had that didn't was a 03 Doblo with the Lucas EPIC pump that "sucked" in many ways! I finally located an air leak on the plastic pipe connector at the fuel tank. Fiat wanted £200 for new flow and return pipes , but I was able to fix using new rubber fuel line and clips for £7 odd.
I proved the problem on that one by putting a temporary fuel supply on bonnet to gravity feed the EPIC pump and van ran straight away.

Hi Mike,

Its your fault..... because you posted the above I looked at eper parts list and it "sucks" with no primer or lift pump fitted.

The days of "run out of fuel and you will regret it greatly"

Cheers
Jack

 

[bugsymike]

The Doblo in my defense I bought after several in the trade couldn't fix it for £300 as I like a challenge. The price was pretty good as it was many years ago. Mind you it did steer me well clear of the Lucas EPIC set up.

 

[Communicator]

Looking at the photos it does appear to be a 2.8itid, not a JTD common rail, so probably one of the late ones before JTD introduced.
Without the turbo pipe removed it is hard to see if it is a Bosch injector pump or not, I am surprised there is no form of primer or lift pump in the system.
The only Fiat I had that didn't was a 03 Doblo with the Lucas EPIC pump that "sucked" in many ways! I finally located an air leak on the plastic pipe connector at the fuel tank. Fiat wanted £200 for new flow and return pipes , but I was able to fix using new rubber fuel line and clips for £7 odd.
I proved the problem on that one by putting a temporary fuel supply on bonnet to gravity feed the EPIC pump and van ran straight away.

Yes, 8140.43, not 8140.43s. Also 4 off injector pipes coming up from the pump. There have been previous threads where the lack of a lift pump was discussed, but hard to say that all 2.8idTD are without a lift pump, perhaps you can confirm a general lack of lift pump?

It seems as the OP has an immobiliser problem. Being a 2.8idTD it will be mounted on the pump, and as a last resort, removable with difficulty.

 

[bugsymike]

Yes, 8140.43, not 8140.43s. Also 4 off injector pipes coming up from the pump. There have been previous threads where the lack of a lift pump was discussed, but hard to say that all 2.8idTD are without a lift pump, perhaps you can confirm a general lack of lift pump?

It seems as the OP has an immobiliser problem. Being a 2.8idTD it will be mounted on the pump, and as a last resort, removable with difficulty.

Most of my knowledge on those engines has been with Iveco Daily's aged roughly from mid 1990s to 2006 ish, they all used some form of Bosch injector pump and all had a mechanical or electric low pressure pump.
The later ones had that bolted to the chassis rail, none I recall in the fuel tank.
If as is suspected the OP has an immobiliser issue, has he tried his spare keys to see if light goes out then?

 

[Yorkysteve]

Hi just a thought whe I came to start it after winter the battery was flat so I took it off to charge it was off for about 3 days

 

[bugsymike]

Hi just a thought whe I came to start it after winter the battery was flat so I took it off to charge it was off for about 3 days

As @jackwhoo mentioned "Do not under any circumstances leave the key in the ignition (even if in off position)
When disconnecting or reconnecting the vehicle battery"
Did you?
If that is the case and your yellow triangle immobiliser light stays on , assuming no other issues, then it may be time to contact a good mobile Auto lock smith.

 

[Yorkysteve]

Thanks for your reply but the key was out of the ignition and when battery was reconnected the engine just turned over but did not fire until the battery went flat again I did not notice at the time if any lights was in dash but I don't remember noticing any

 

[jackwhoo]

As @jackwhoo mentioned "Do not under any circumstances leave the key in the ignition (even if in off position)
When disconnecting or reconnecting the vehicle battery"
Did you?
If that is the case and your yellow triangle immobiliser light stays on , assuming no other issues, then it may be time to contact a good mobile Auto lock smith.

Hi,
@Communicator will have some good suggestions and checks before we get to call out auto locksmith, which given age of vehicle may not be easy.

Plus we don't yet know if immo code light is staying on.

Fingers xed

Best wishes
Jack

 

[jackwhoo]

Thanks for your reply but the key was out of the ignition and when battery was reconnected the engine just turned over but did not fire until the battery went flat again I did not notice at the time if any lights was in dash but I don't remember noticing any

That's good news.

 

[Yorkysteve]

Just tried both keys and code is staying on put some deisel in new fuel filter and reconnected all pies to filter and sender in tank tried starting and turned over but battery died code light still on but only half charge in battery so charging it up fully and will try turning it over for a while when fully charged unless she knows different I can try thanks again all

 

[Yorkysteve]

Unless anyone knows different not she as above

 

[Communicator]

Sorry Steve, but a waste of time trying to start when the key code light is illuminated, but do continue to recharge the battery.

The key code system functions in a similar manner to supermarket tags, with an unpowered chip in the key, and an aeriel ring round the ignition switch, which supplies power to the chip in the key, and picks up the key's response. A challenge and password (code) system.

Coupled with the electronics suffering from old age, there are several theories as to why the system fails.

1. Radio frequency components drifting out of tune over time.
Not much that we can do about that.

2. The normally used key has developed a fault, or the code receiver has corrupted memory.
Can you try a different key? (This has already been suggested.)

3. Other keys or metal objects on the same key ring can absorb the weak radio signals.
If applicable, try the key without any other metal objects attached.

4. My current favourite. Oxidation of the plug & socket contacts at the code receiver attenuate the radio signals.
Access the code receiver, which I believe, as in the x244 model, is on lower side of steering column.
With ignition OFF remove unplug connectors, apply contact cleaner and replace. This worked for me over 12 months ago.
No failures since, but I had 2 out of 5, when testing before applying this fix.

If it is possible to obtain the emergency start code, either from a key code card included with vehicle documentation, or from Fiat
you may be able to start the engine with that. However it is not in my opinion along term fix, just a get you home facility.

If all these fail, then perhaps it is time to consider removing the immobiliser from the pump. This has security implications, and you may wish to inform your insurance company.