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Technical Fiat Ducato 2.3 MultiJet water pump leaking need help with different length bolt positions!!

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Technical Fiat Ducato 2.3 MultiJet water pump leaking need help with different length bolt positions!!

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MrkT

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Hi,i Have recently changed both the timing belt and water pump on our fiat ducato 2.3 MultiJet based motorhome.(using Gates kit)
when stripping the old water pump,i put each bolt on a separate pump drawing i made as i'd read some of these are different lengths and needed to go back exactly as taken off......everything was fine,until a big gust of wind blew and blew the lot all over the place!
when reinstalling to 35nm i managed to snap a bolt (obviously too long for that position) but luckily i was able to remove the remains after removing the water pump again.......put it back together and i have a leak.stripped it all back down,ordered genuine replacement seals.......all fine.....but been away for the weekend and losing coolant from a slight water pump leak again! Before i strip this down again,does anyone know for sure which length bolts go where? obviously the small 10mm bolt can only go in one place (top left) and the 3 fuel pump bolts also can only go to the pump.......some of the remaining 6 bolts are slightly shorter than the rest,so must go in a certain position.....for ease I've numbered a pic of the pump.
fiat 2.3 waterpump.jpg
 
Hello @MrkT

If it was me I’d quickly check the depth of each thread hole on the block - then fit the 6 bolts into the pump viewing from the back side so I could see the threads and would choose a permutation that gave them all similar measurements for protrusion of visible threads (measured from end of bolt thread to gasket face with bolt pushed firmly to pump) whilst ensuring none were longer than the available depth in the block.
I dont think you need to be any more technical than that.

35nm is not a lot - are you confident your torque wrench is in working order? - I would expect it to register as the bolt touched the bottom without snapping it
 
AsdaPricey said:
Hello @MrkT

If it was me I’d quickly check the depth of each thread hole on the block - then fit the 6 bolts into the pump viewing from the back side so I could see the threads and would choose a permutation that gave them all similar measurements for protrusion of visible threads (measured from end of bolt thread to gasket face with bolt pushed firmly to pump) whilst ensuring none were longer than the available depth in the block.
I dont think you need to be any more technical than that.

35nm is not a lot - are you confident your torque wrench is in working order? - I would expect it to register as the bolt touched the bottom without snapping it
Click to expand...
HI,thanks for that....yes i'll do that when i strip it again if nobody knows off hand. it may be this torque wrench might be fecked, I've had it for years but never used it.(i have 3 but the other larger two don't go as low as 35nm) i had my doubts about it when using it,especially when that bolt snapped and my intention is buy a new one before i build this back up again and use that. I've since read online that the torque may be 25nm,but others say 35nm!! does anyone on here know for sure which? (anyway,my intention is to buy a genuine pump and fit that and hopefully i have no more problems!) i wouldn't mind there was nothing wrong with the old genuine one! :(
 
Wow you are having a time of it.
Was the leak from the joint or the pump seal?
It is important not to rotate pump dry before fitting, or during fitting, lube the face seal of pump with coolant before fitting - it's good practise.

Face seal is inside pump .
 
jackwhoo said:
Wow you are having a time of it.
Was the leak from the joint or the pump seal?
It is important not to rotate pump dry before fitting, or during fitting, lube the face seal of pump with coolant before fitting - it's good practise.

Face seal is inside pump .
Click to expand...
yes tell me about it Jack.....after our old Hymer let us down once too often,we thought it a good idea to buy a newer (2014) Carthago chic c-line.......no history of timing belt being done, so had to be done.
i think its from the joint. (coolant leak appears between the forward edge pump mating and the block) it could be dodgy pump,seals or incorrectly torqued......or all 3. i doubt now it was the bolts.....as looking at more water pump fittings on you-tube it appears the only bolt differences are the 1 x 10mm and the 3 x injection pump bolts. the rest may be the same. (can anyone confirm that??) i'll know better when i strip it down again and have a good look. i wish now i had left the original alone as there was/is nothing wrong with it. :( This new gates water pump, the seals on that were half the size in thickness as the originals.....i can see why it would leak with those,but i bought an original smaller seal and reused the larger original seal (yes i know) as it was a lot thicker and in excellent condition.......before i was getting a leak when cold (and hot) but now only slightly weeping when it is hot...... anyway,i'm going to order a new fiat water pump,new fiat seals and new bolts and hopefully that should sort it. (and a new torque wrench!) :)
 
someone said that some garages use a sealant as well as the seals......anyone here can confirm or deny that??
 
MrkT said:
someone said that some garages use a sealant as well as the seals......anyone here can confirm or deny that??
Click to expand...
Please do not use both , If it's got seals and a gasket you don't need sealant.
In fact if gasket and seal/s sealant is prohibited my most water pump manufactures . As too much /incorrectly applied sealant gets in the face seal and causes leaks.
 
jackwhoo said:
Please do not use both , If it's got seals and a gasket you don't need sealant.
In fact if gasket and seal/s sealant is prohibited my most water pump manufactures . As too much /incorrectly applied sealant gets in the face seal and causes leaks.
Click to expand...
yes that's what i thought too.............trouble is google,you tube etc. is full of conflicting advice!! same as the torque settings for the bolts.....there's a few videos recommending 35nm,25nm and 30nm. (these i torqued to 35nm on the above advice!!)
these just have two o ring seals one large one small.
 
Worth checking the official procedure as it's a large casing with pump hanging on it .....sequence of loosening /tightening to reduce deflection?
 
You state 10mm bolts ..... is that thread diameter ? We can't tell anything from head diameter?
 
jackwhoo said:
M8 thread I aim for 28nm
Click to expand...
if you'd have asked that earlier today i could have told you the exact sizes............i think the 10mm bolt is an M6 and the others 13mm bolts are M8. i know the torque for the smaller one is 10nm. fiat say 25nm and iveco say 30nm for the rest.......so you may be correct.
 
jackwhoo said:
@Communicator Hi please do you have a link to proceedure, via car4data or other? Cheers J
Click to expand...
I do not have any info specific to the 2.3 multijet, but 244 eLearn gives M8 bolts 25Nm, and M6 bolts 10Nm, for the earlier 2.3jtd which is virtually the same engine. No particular tightening sequence, but common sense suggests start at middle and work outwards by diagonal selection, if you can manage it.

The OP should learn to specify bolts by diameter and not head size, as that can differ between DIN and ISO standards. I made myself a table, attached.
 

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