Technical fiat doblo 1.3 sx multijet problem with white smoke and no power

[handsomebeast]

hi there, bought myself a second hand doblo 1.3 sx multijet a couple weeks ago, the turbo had seized, so i got that replaced with the turbo feed pipe, oil pump, water pump, sump was obviously taken off also, and timing chain kit, after all the work i started the van and all seemed fine, fresh coolant and oil, 3,3 litres of oil checked on dipstic for overfilling and coolant level, needed it for a job i had 210 mile away, so i drove it for the day to see if any problems arose before the long journey and all seemed fine, went to the job and on the way home 45 miles before getting home, the dash warning said insufficient oil pressure pull over, or something to that effect, checked the oil on the hard shoulder and it was dry somehow, so i called my dad to buy and bring me a fresh 5 litre can of oil, and a recovery truck to give me a jump start as the battery wasnt charged enough to start it after having the hazard lights on for an hour and a half, the van started so i paid the recovery guy and got back into the van, as soon as i tried pulling off i couldnt go over 2-3k revs and white smoke was pouring out of the exhaust, so i had to be recovered home, the van is outside now the battery is charging, so my question is what could be the cause of this, the only thing i didnt do was do a component relearn on the turbo but as it was running ok i didnt bother, and after spending a lot of money to get it running i dont know where to start, also i noticed the dpf has had a hole drilled through it and welded up so its more than likely been remapped with a dpf delete map

 

[bugsymike]

hi there, bought myself a second hand doblo 1.3 sx multijet a couple weeks ago, the turbo had seized, so i got that replaced with the turbo feed pipe, oil pump, water pump, sump was obviously taken off also, and timing chain kit, after all the work i started the van and all seemed fine, fresh coolant and oil, 3,3 litres of oil checked on dipstic for overfilling and coolant level, needed it for a job i had 210 mile away, so i drove it for the day to see if any problems arose before the long journey and all seemed fine, went to the job and on the way home 45 miles before getting home, the dash warning said insufficient oil pressure pull over, or something to that effect, checked the oil on the hard shoulder and it was dry somehow, so i called my dad to buy and bring me a fresh 5 litre can of oil, and a recovery truck to give me a jump start as the battery wasnt charged enough to start it after having the hazard lights on for an hour and a half, the van started so i paid the recovery guy and got back into the van, as soon as i tried pulling off i couldnt go over 2-3k revs and white smoke was pouring out of the exhaust, so i had to be recovered home, the van is outside now the battery is charging, so my question is what could be the cause of this, the only thing i didnt do was do a component relearn on the turbo but as it was running ok i didnt bother, and after spending a lot of money to get it running i dont know where to start, also i noticed the dpf has had a hole drilled through it and welded up so its more than likely been remapped with a dpf delete map

I suggest a good diagnostic scan to see what is actually on the system and working.
If it hadn't as you suppose been remapped /dpf bypassed etc. I would say it needed a good Regen and a long run with DPF additive in tank to clean the system. As in engine at normal temp 90 degrees in middle of gauge, bottle of DPF additive in the fuel tank full of fuel, then a non stop run of around 30 miles with revs ideally between 2-3000 rpm.
However that would be on an original vehicle with no alterations mechanically.

 

[handsomebeast]

I suggest a good diagnostic scan to see what is actually on the system and working.
If it hadn't as you suppose been remapped /dpf bypassed etc. I would say it needed a good Regen and a long run with DPF additive in tank to clean the system. As in engine at normal temp 90 degrees in middle of gauge, bottle of DPF additive in the fuel tank full of fuel, then a non stop run of around 30 miles with revs ideally between 2-3000 rpm.
However that would be on an original vehicle with no alterations mechanically.

thanks for the advice, my mechanic has a scanner ill get him to hook it up later on, when the batterys charged and ill post results

 

[handsomebeast]

also took off the intake pipe to the turbo and it is leaking oil but its a brand new turbo, https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/316142741711

 

[bugsymike]

also took off the intake pipe to the turbo and it is leaking oil but its a brand new turbo, https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/316142741711

When you say it is leaking oil from the intake pipe, do you mean the side where the air cleaner is or the side nearest to the inter cooler?
Generally I find that supplier to be good.
Incidentally a faulty/blocked DPF can knacker a good turbo.
Having said that in your previous post you mentioned a running out of oil, just a thought but if the previous owner had gone the route of DPF bypassing and possible Remapping then presumably he "Had the need for Speed" and maybe flogged the t*ts of the Doblo before you bought it and now engine is burning oil etc.
If lots of piston wear then "blowby" can push oil out of breathers etc into intake pipe and on a run burn off enough oil to run out and damage engine even further.
Surely your mechanic will have a view regarding this?

 

[handsomebeast]

When you say it is leaking oil from the intake pipe, do you mean the side where the air cleaner is or the side nearest to the inter cooler?
Generally I find that supplier to be good.

the side where the airbox is, havent got the tools to check the exaust side

 

[bugsymike]

the side where the airbox is, havent got the tools to check the exaust side

That is the breather side.
Get your mechanics view regarding the engine overall, they are not exactly a strong high performance unit in my view for tuning and driving hard.

 

[handsomebeast]

the side where the airbox is, havent got the tools to check the exaust side

That is the breather side.
Get your mechanics view regarding the engine overall, they are not exactly a strong high performance unit in my view for tuning and driving hard.

i noticed theyre not the greatest performing engine ive driven but it was sufficient when it was working okay, i just looked at the turbo out of curiositiy as it was easier than checking the injectors to diagnose where the smoke is coming from and why, as i read injectors can cause white smoke, and my mechanic is my nexdoor neighbour so im just waiting till he gets home to try and see whats happening, its only done 105k now and after replacing all those parts i thought it would be fine, i was going to buy a new dpf and get the vlinker to get the map back to stock or as close as i could but this happened

 

[bugsymike]

i noticed theyre not the greatest performing engine ive driven but it was sufficient when it was working okay, i just looked at the turbo out of curiositiy as it was easier than checking the injectors to diagnose where the smoke is coming from and why, as i read injectors can cause white smoke, and my mechanic is my nexdoor neighbour so im just waiting till he gets home to try and see whats happening, its only done 105k now and after replacing all those parts i thought it would be fine

I agree they are good enough for everyday work and a lot have been made, my concern was if previous owner had been less kind with it shall we say.
I have the Vauxhall Combo 1.3MJ version of that model and also two Fiat Doblo 1.6s and had an earlier Fiat Grande Punto 1.3 MJ so familiar with them. Although my old 1.9JTD Doblo in the past was a far more powerful engine.

 

[handsomebeast]

OK A LITTLE UPDATE, mechanic looked at the turbo and as it was new have arranged a warranty return, which has made me pretty angry as its brand new and they say 8-12 weeks after receiving it and investigating before giving me a resolution either refund or replacement, anyway diagnostic codes that have come up are
p0110 glow plug 3
p068a battery detachment
p0110 air temperature sensor (air mass flow meter temperature)circuit short to battery or open
c1200 battery voltage
b0101 control unit power supply
u0426 minicrypt
u1706 braking system (NFR)
u1701 engine control (NCM)
u1703 instrument panel
b10aa proxi configuration control
b1009 battery voltage
u0019 b-can line
u1705 receiver radio (NRR)
p0673 refer to manual (or something to that effect) but it pertains to glow plug 3
still starts but says check engine on dash, glow pug check light was on but didnt replace them as they need a soak in wd as they were tight which i was going to do when i got home but i broke down,
none of this explains the 3.3 litres of oil just dissapearing after 350 miles and why the turbo started leaking, but being low on oil may have caused that, there was no white smoke before breaking down, only after filling oil after breaking down with the oil pressure low warning, the mechanic is scratching his head too, so i dont know where to start to resolve this or if its even worth it after shelling out 2.5k for the van and repairs, and i now have a kerbside ornament basically, any ideas anybody, a new or replacement turbo may just end up the same way and i dont want to throw endless amounts of money at it as it has already bled me dry

 

[bugsymike]

OK A LITTLE UPDATE, mechanic looked at the turbo and as it was new have arranged a warranty return, which has made me pretty angry as its brand new and they say 8-12 weeks after receiving it and investigating before giving me a resolution either refund or replacement, anyway diagnostic codes that have come up are
p0110 glow plug 3
p068a battery detachment
p0110 air temperature sensor (air mass flow meter temperature)circuit short to battery or open
c1200 battery voltage
b0101 control unit power supply
u0426 minicrypt
u1706 braking system (NFR)
u1701 engine control (NCM)
u1703 instrument panel
b10aa proxi configuration control
b1009 battery voltage
u0019 b-can line
u1705 receiver radio (NRR)
p0673 refer to manual (or something to that effect) but it pertains to glow plug 3
still starts but says check engine on dash, glow pug check light was on but didnt replace them as they need a soak in wd as they were tight which i was going to do when i got home but i broke down,
none of this explains the 3.3 litres of oil just dissapearing after 350 miles and why the turbo started leaking, but being low on oil may have caused that, there was no white smoke before breaking down, only after filling oil after breaking down with the oil pressure low warning, the mechanic is scratching his head too, so i dont know where to start to resolve this or if its even worth it after shelling out 2.5k for the van and repairs, and i now have a kerbside ornament basically, any ideas anybody, a new or replacement turbo may just end up the same way and i dont want to throw endless amounts of money at it as it has already bled me dry

Some of these codes may have been caused when battery voltage low or parts disconnected when ignition on etc.
P0673 could be the heater plug relay, but would need to be tested further to confirm.
None of these codes relate to your white smoke, heavy oil consumption etc.
very surprised about turbo failure from that company as I have found them quite good.
Are you sure all the oil pump, oil feed pipe, etc. jobs were done correctly as turbos can fail if poor oil delivery very quickly, if so when warranty people check it they will soon see as oil starvation affects the turbo bearings.
Re all the error codes, I would make a note of them and then delete them and test again in a few days to see which ones re appear.

 

[handsomebeast]

Some of these codes may have been caused when battery voltage low or parts disconnected when ignition on etc.
P0673 could be the heater plug relay, but would need to be tested further to confirm.
None of these codes relate to your white smoke, heavy oil consumption etc.
very surprised about turbo failure from that company as I have found them quite good.
Are you sure all the oil pump, oil feed pipe, etc. jobs were done correctly as turbos can fail if poor oil delivery very quickly, if so when warranty people check it they will soon see as oil starvation affects the turbo bearings.
Re all the error codes, I would make a note of them and then delete them and test again in a few days to see which ones re appear.

yes the parts were changed correctly, torque setting as stated by fiat for the oil pump and sump ect, new oil feed pipe for the turbo with new washers and banjo bolts and torqued correctly , return was checked for wear and damage and blockages, new banjo bolts on the oil injector that lubricates the chain, left the ht silicone to dry for 24hrs before filling with oil, and coolant, gaskets all new, im very particular and thorough and basically helped him do the whole thing making sure it was all done properly, hes done quite a few and had no problems and they never had all the other new
associated parts i bought when doing the timing chain, and had no problems, it just doesnt make sense, and ive cleared the codes and ill try and see if the return in a couple of days, the onty thing we think is that the turbo was leaking on the exhaust side at first leaking oil into the exhaust pipe and later started leaking into the intake side after the oil ran dry, but i checked the oil after running it for a day and when i got to where i was going 200 mile away or so and the oil level was ok before i headed home, so i just have no clue, and he will be taking the turbo off tomorrow as he hasnt had time yet to investigate apart from hooking up the diagnostics and im gonna be away for a couple days so ill have to wait till friday before i can give any more info, appreciate the help and you taking time to read and give your thoughts, it just bugs me it was running fine until i broke down, and my adhd wont let me just leave it alone,

 

[handsomebeast]

yes a the parts were changed correctly, torque setting as stated my fiat for the oil pump and sump ect, new oil feed pipe for the turbo with new washers and banjo bolts and torqued correctly , return was checked for wear and damage and blockages, new banjo bolts on the oil injector that lubricates the chain, left the ht silicone to dry for 24hrs before filling with oil, and coolant, gaskets all new, im very particular and thorough and basically helped him do the whole thing making sure it was all done properly, hes done quite a few and had no problems and they never had all the other new
associated parts i bought when doing the timing chain, and had no problems, it just doesnt make sense

yes the parts were changed correctly, torque setting as stated by fiat for the oil pump and sump ect, new oil feed pipe for the turbo with new washers and banjo bolts and torqued correctly , return was checked for wear and damage and blockages, new banjo bolts on the oil injector that lubricates the chain, left the ht silicone to dry for 24hrs before filling with oil, and coolant, gaskets all new, im very particular and thorough and basically helped him do the whole thing making sure it was all done properly, hes done quite a few and had no problems and they never had all the other new
associated parts i bought when doing the timing chain, and had no problems, it just doesnt make sense, and ive cleared the codes and ill try and see if the return in a couple of days, the onty thing we think is that the turbo was leaking on the exhaust side at first leaking oil into the exhaust pipe and later started leaking into the intake side after the oil ran dry, but i checked the oil after running it for a day and when i got to where i was going 200 mile away or so and the oil level was ok before i headed home, so i just have no clue, and he will be taking the turbo off tomorrow as he hasnt had time yet to investigate apart from hooking up the diagnostics and im gonna be away for a couple days so ill have to wait till friday before i can give any more info, appreciate the help and you taking time to read and give your thoughts, it just bugs me it was running fine until i broke down, and my adhd wont let me just leave it alone,

yes the parts were changed correctly, torque setting as stated by fiat for the oil pump and sump ect, new oil feed pipe for the turbo with new washers and banjo bolts and torqued correctly , return was checked for wear and damage and blockages, new banjo bolts on the oil injector that lubricates the chain, left the ht silicone to dry for 24hrs before filling with oil, and coolant, gaskets all new, im very particular and thorough and basically helped him do the whole thing making sure it was all done properly, hes done quite a few and had no problems and they never had all the other new
associated parts i bought when doing the timing chain, and had no problems, it just doesnt make sense, and ive cleared the codes and ill try and see if the return in a couple of days, the onty thing we think is that the turbo was leaking on the exhaust side at first leaking oil into the exhaust pipe and later started leaking into the intake side after the oil ran dry, but i checked the oil after running it for a day and when i got to where i was going 200 mile away or so and the oil level was ok before i headed home, so i just have no clue, and he will be taking the turbo off tomorrow as he hasnt had time yet to investigate apart from hooking up the diagnostics and im gonna be away for a couple days so ill have to wait till friday before i can give any more info, appreciate the help and you taking time to read and give your thoughts, it just bugs me it was running fine until i broke down, and my adhd wont let me just leave it alone,

the only option is to get another turbo and see if it happens again but thats not really the best idea if its gonna happen again, i just dont know, if i was unlucky enough to have one that had a fault within 400 miles, if it was going to fail i thought it would fail earlier than that but who knows,

 

[bugsymike]

the only option is to get another turbo and see if it happens again but thats not really the best idea if its gonna happen again, i just dont know, if i was unlucky enough to have one that had a fault within 400 miles, if it was going to fail i thought it would fail earlier than that but who knows,

I had a customer with a Peugeot who supplied his own cheap Chinese turbo, two failed before he gave up and scrapped the car , luckily for me he paid my bill.
It sounds like you and your mechanic did all the right things, so maybe there is a bigger issue with the engine to cause it to lose all it's oil etc. Something the previous owner was aware of?

 

[cyb0r]

get a compression test done, sounds like oil passing the rings. happened with my first ducato engine. bores were scored.
tons white grey smoke, lack of power. smoke stinking of oil which was disappearing rather quickly.
Easy check is to remove oil filter with engine running- strong pressure is not good news.
Also check for a blocked PCV valve, this can also lead to pressure and oil consumption.

 

[handsomebeast]

I had a customer with a Peugeot who supplied his own cheap Chinese turbo, two failed before he gave up and scrapped the car , luckily for me he paid my bill.
It sounds like you and your mechanic did all the right things, so maybe there is a bigger issue with the engine to cause it to lose all it's oil etc. Something the previous owner was aware of?

yeah i agree, he had filled it with oil before i went to view it, i needed it for work but i wish id waited thanks for the info

 

[handsomebeast]

get a compression test done, sounds like oil passing the rings. happened with my first ducato engine. bores were scored.
tons white grey smoke, lack of power. smoke stinking of oil which was disappearing rather quickly.
Easy check is to remove oil filter with engine running- strong pressure is not good news.
Also check for a blocked PCV valve, this can also lead to pressure and oil consumption.

ill try that i think thanks for the info guys https://www.ic24.uk/products/c0ffb2-oil-separator-crankcase-ventilation-55185372 this is one of the many i found but dont know how to locate it to check if the one on the van is faulty?
this image is from a 199a2.000 engine but mine is the 199a3.000 so i dont know if this is what is on my engine, it stands to reason that this could be the cause, as before i left to come home the oil level was fine, and just before the breakdown i noticed a boost in power and without trying was pushing 80mph, without putting my foot down any further, then the warning came up and i pulled over, when i get home on friday ill do the compression test by trying what you said cybor, will it work if i just take the oil filler cap off and check pressure that way or do ineed to take the oil filter cap off? also the white smoke does smell of oil but its not surprising when the turbo is leaking oil into the air intake, my mechanic is going to take the turbo off today but im gonna ask him to just take off the exhaust side and see if thats leaking, also if it is the pcv valve thats caused the issue could it be coming from the sump to the turbo inlet fron the pcv and not the turbo actually leaking oil,

 

[bugsymike]

ill try that i think thanks for the info guys https://www.ic24.uk/products/c0ffb2-oil-separator-crankcase-ventilation-55185372 this is one of the many i found but dont know how to locate it to check if the one on the van is faulty?
View attachment 464695this image is from a 199a2.000 engine but mine is the 199a3.000 so i dont know if this is what is on my engine, it stands to reason that this could be the cause, as before i left to come home the oil level was fine, and just before the breakdown i noticed a boost in power and without trying was pushing 80mph, without putting my foot down any further, then the warning came up and i pulled over, when i get home on friday ill do the compression test by trying what you said cybor, will it work if i just take the oil filler cap off and check pressure that way or do ineed to take the oil filter cap off? also the white smoke does smell of oil but its not surprising when the turbo is leaking oil into the air intake, my mechanic is going to take the turbo off today but im gonna ask him to just take off the exhaust side and see if thats leaking, also if it is the pcv valve thats caused the issue could it be coming from the sump to the turbo inlet fron the pcv and not the turbo actually leaking oil,

80 Mph is quite high revs for a 1.3, especially if it is a 5 speed, I have a 2014 Vauxhall Combo1.3MJ which is basically the same as yours, in 5th gear 50-60 mph is where it seems happiest, The 1.6 van I have which has the six speed gearbox is much faster, but doesn't have the low speed grunt.
What is described isn't actually a compression test, more a quick "blow by" test, taking the oil filler cap off when idling will show if excessive piston/cylinder bore wear by the amount of fumes blowing out of the filler, it is a guide but needs to be based on experience as for instance a worn petrol engine blow by is much less than a good diesel engine. For accurate compression test on a diesel as suitable high pressure gauge would need to be fitted to the heater or injector plug holes with an adaptor. Then if readings are low I then use a leak test involving another piece of equipment that puts compressed air into the engine on each individual cylinder and can show where the pressure loss is, piston/valves/head gasket etc.
At the beginning when you mentioned taking the intake pipe off, I suggested, "When you say it is leaking oil from the intake pipe, do you mean the side where the air cleaner is or the side nearest to the inter cooler?" This would have told you if it was a turbo fault or an engine fault where oil is forced out of the breather before the turbo and then sucked in through the "good" turbo.
Re the white smoke, I have had a 1.6 MJ that had a faulty turbo where the bearings had gone and you could feel excessive movement, this allowed the oil lubrication to go past the worn bearing and burn in the engine. Even with the new turbo it took a long time to get all the oil out of the intercooler and pipework so that it would stop smoking.

 

[jackwhoo]

get a compression test done, sounds like oil passing the rings. happened with my first ducato engine. bores were scored.
tons white grey smoke, lack of power. smoke stinking of oil which was disappearing rather quickly.
Easy check is to remove oil filter with engine running- strong pressure is not good news.
Also check for a blocked PCV valve, this can also lead to pressure and oil consumption.

I think auto correct may have changed oil filler to filter

 

[cyb0r]

I think auto correct may have changed oil filler to filter

lol it has, thank you for noticing